Freedom Force- A Superhero Game?

[Tomato]

As I'm sitting here, waiting for a class to end so I can be just as bored waiting for my friends to show up, and having no desire to do much else, I just wanted to put this question to the community:

Given the nature of Freedom Force's game engine and it's setting within a purely Superhero world, at what point is something too far outside that skope?

What I'm getting at is, this community, despite it's heroic focus, has a wide berth of content available. I've seen stuff for Transformers, Masters of the Universe, Dragon Ball Z, Nintendo, Power Rangers, Star Wars, and I've even personally done some Slayers stuff. Heroes will always be our focus, but I do think it's cool that we can go outside that boundary and create really cool stuff.

But at what point are we going to far? I think most of the above are useful, and thus worthwhile, because they can fight and because they all can reasonably fit within the universe. But we get down to some of the more outlandish stuff... I'm not berating anyone in particular, but I've seen requests for Pokemon, Yugioh, Fairly Odd Parents, and so forth. I personally cannot imagine Squirtle fighting alongside Luke Skywalker or Captain America. It is an inconceivable concept to me.

Another thing to consider to is, and this is true with me at least... When I created my Lina skin, or my old Slayers stuff before (stuff most people will not remember, thankfully) It had less to do with me thinking "This will make a great FF story!" and more "I want to make a 3D Lina. I'll use FF!" My Fighter was made in a similar vein, combined with my desire to see what I could do with the engine as far as a faux cell shading. So is there a difference between requesting an odd addition and making it?

I know this seems like a rant, and coming from me it will probably be taken as much, but it's really not. I'm just in an odd mood, and I was curious what everyone thinks.

[Vertex]

I'm very simple...

My ONLY interest is in superhero comic book characters and that's all I make. But to each their own and more power to em!

[Cyber Burn]

As I'm sitting here, waiting for a class to end so I can be just as bored waiting for my friends to show up, and having no desire to do much else, I just wanted to put this question to the community:

Given the nature of Freedom Force's game engine and it's setting within a purely Superhero world, at what point is something too far outside that skope?

What I'm getting at is, this community, despite it's heroic focus, has a wide berth of content available. I've seen stuff for Transformers, Masters of the Universe, Dragon Ball Z, Nintendo, Power Rangers, Star Wars, and I've even personally done some Slayers stuff. Heroes will always be our focus, but I do think it's cool that we can go outside that boundary and create really cool stuff.

But at what point are we going to far? I think most of the above are useful, and thus worthwhile, because they can fight and because they all can reasonably fit within the universe. But we get down to some of the more outlandish stuff... I'm not berating anyone in particular, but I've seen requests for Pokemon, Yugioh, Fairly Odd Parents, and so forth. I personally cannot imagine Squirtle fighting alongside Luke Skywalker or Captain America. It is an inconceivable concept to me.

Another thing to consider to is, and this is true with me at least... When I created my Lina skin, or my old Slayers stuff before (stuff most people will not remember, thankfully) It had less to do with me thinking "This will make a great FF story!" and more "I want to make a 3D Lina. I'll use FF!" My Fighter was made in a similar vein, combined with my desire to see what I could do with the engine as far as a faux cell shading. So is there a difference between requesting an odd addition and making it?

I know this seems like a rant, and coming from me it will probably be taken as much, but it's really not. I'm just in an odd mood, and I was curious what everyone thinks.

Since I'm one of the people who had one of the odd requests (Yugioh), I think that I can speak up here.

Personally, Yugioh is one of my main hobbies, and I would just like to see what the possibilities are by inroducing a different type of character into  . Are the characters possible to mesh/skope/skin? Can usable hero files be created? Will I enjoy throwing a duelist against mainstream and original comic characters? Will the duelist even stand a chance? I don't know, but I think it would be cool to see.

And no, I don't see your post as a rant, but rather as an honest question which deserves an honest answer.

[bearded]

if it has been made into a comic, that counts as something whithin the boundaries.  cause, if it's been made into a comic, it has potential for teamup.
i present, xmen vs star trek:
http://members.tripod.com/originalvigilante/startrekxmen.htm
really that means anything goes as far as i'm concerned.  i've read punisher and archie teamup.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archie_Meets_the_Punisher

[detourne_me]

I've often thought about this too.
I personally have no problem with any media that is centered on violence to be translated into FF, for example I'd love to see some Bleach meshes, or other giant robots done...
hey that reminds me, whatever happened to the Rose McGowan from Planet Terror skope somebody made back when nifskope came out?
I'd like to see boundaries of all sorts be pushed when it comes to FF, examples include C4's Danger Room mod, or Dr. Mike's proposed FF Nexus.

[Alaric]

I honestly don't see what the problem is. Do people complain about fantasy mods for Civilization? Freedom Force is a game, and one designed for modding. As far as I'm concerned, even though my own interest in the game stems from the super hero aspect, anyone's welcome to mod it in whatever way they want to.

Besides, the super hero genre really overlaps with all other genres, anyway.

[AfghanAnt]

I personally think this engine only works well with traditional superhuman types so that is why I only do those types. However, I did start a Mario and Luigi (after playing super smash bros). For me it was about creation and than recreation but others may see it differently.

[bearded]

yeah.  i'm saying, if dc owned the rights to zardoz, he'd be in the justice league.
(captain spud chastised me long ago for requesting the zardoz skin.  spud's funny.)
but, what is superhuman, aa?  thor?  the phantom?  adam strange?  mythology, pulp, and sci fi right there.

[BentonGrey]

I certainly don't think there is anything wrong with pushing the boundaries of FF, and I am glad so many people have enjoyed the game in so many different ways.  Still, I myself have run up against the game's limitations.  I remember struggling with it to try and create a G.I. JOE mod, and aside from the fact that I was far from prepared for the work and time involved in creating a mod at the time, a bunch of guys toting guns just didn't translate that well.  It was REALLY hard trying to make all the characters different.  I've turned my sights to Silent Storm for that instead, which just seems like a much better fit.  One of these days I'll get around to a G.I. JOE mod.  In fact, if I ever finish a releasable DCUG, then it may be my next project.

[Ash4fire]

hmmm....

i like comics a lot and i lovveee Fredom Force but its interesting to play with other stuff like Transformers or giant Robots !

i love the obscure Heroes too .... its so cool to play with us jones or other characters from old comic books.

[Volsung]

I used to wish to make a Castlevania mod based on Dracula's curse. With the 4 playable characters as a team achieving several goals and facing ennemies declined from the endless bestiary of the original saga...
I also used to wish to make a super Robot mod based on the classics japanese shows such as Mazinger Z or Getter Robot with the FF mechanics.
I also used to wish to make my own mod inspired by several universe that I liked (Go nagai and Shotaro ishinomori's works) mixed into my own universe...

Yes... I used to wish to do tons of things... But for that I'd need time and a mysterious wad of cash, every day, left on my doorstep...And maybe to be able to refocus... 

Well...FF got super heroes for subject that's all. The gameplay mechanics suits many contexts. (Frankly I never saw a game offering that much in terms of modding, except some 2d game engines...)

[docdelorean88]

Why do so many people want wierd content(un hero related)? Because we want to see if it can be done. This game has basic, and at points very limited resources for creative purposes. However, you skinners and meshers break that boundary and give us game players a thrill. Like "Oh my gosh... I didn't think i would ever see a Ghostbuster in a videogame!" Thats why everyone requests/skins/meshes these things. People around here have two things in common. 1) They don't like restrictions, and if they get one they find some way around it. 2) They are creative and full of life, just wanting to see something out of the ordinary. I don't see any problems with creating non-comic book archetype heroes/villains. One final reason is because it lets us put images where our thoughts can't see. Everyone has wondered "Who would win in a fight, Leonardo or The Infrgable Krunk? Buttercup or Wolverine? The Ghostbusters or Gentleman Ghost?" or something similarly obscure. Why not give the people what they want if you will use your creations as well? I'm not saying do every obscure request. Just to consider them every now and again. And no, you weren't ranting. I have thought the same thing myself.

[The Hitman]

I could make a post about the many boundries that could be broken with the FF battle system, if we just look past the superficial Superhero genre that is by default covering this game. I could get very insightful. But instead, I choose to not to.

[Tomato]

Why do so many people want weird(non hero related) content? Because we want to see if it can be done. This game contains very basic, and at points also very limited resources for creative purposes. However, you skinners and meshers break those boundaries and give us game players a thrill. Like "Oh my gosh... I didn't think i would ever see a Ghostbuster in a video game!" Thats why everyone requests/skins/meshes these things.

People around here have two things in common.

1)They don't like restrictions, and if they get one they find some way around it.
2)They are creative and full of life, just wanting to see something out of the ordinary.

Personally, I don't see any problems with creating non-comic book archetype heroes/villains. One final reason is because it lets us put images where our thoughts can't see. Everyone has wondered "Who would win in a fight, Leonardo or The Infragable Krunk? Buttercup or Wolverine? The Ghostbusters or Gentleman Ghost?" or something similarly obscure. Why not give the people what they want if you will use your creations as well? I'm not saying do every obscure request. Just to consider them every now and again. And no, you weren't ranting. I have thought the same thing myself.

Mk, after sufficiently translating your post so I could take it all in, let me try to respond.

I guess my thing isn't so much pushing the boundaries (because Fighter doesn't do that at all ) as much as it is that I think there's a point where I have to throw my hands up and go "that's too far, I can't conceive of that"

For instance, awhile back I was a member of a Kingdom Hearts forum RPG, and this one guy posted a character where Luke Skywalker(Star Wars) transformed into Lugia(Pokemon) using the force. In, again, a Kingdom Hearts RPG.

Now, let's be clear here. Despite it's Fantasy/Disney basis, this is an RPG which has, in it's lifetime, accepted everything from Robin to Soul Calibur characters to Castlevania, and went on (after he'd been told his idea was rediculous) to accept this guy as a basic Luke Skywalker. This is an RPG rife with clones, catgirls, catboys, dogboys, demons, elves, every kind of bad fashion statement imaginable. And yet, when this guy came up, the admins could not stop laughing.

There is a point, whether we realize it or not, where an idea has gone too far. And for me, despite my liking of the shows, Ben 10 and Danny Phantom are about the furthest I'll accept from the intended Genre. Bleach is fine (though I'm not a fan) Naruto is fine (I am a fan, but I will never ever make any content for it for FF, the fans are just too nuts) Slayers I've made, etc. But I look at Nero's post (and I'm not trying to be mean here) and see Tiny Toons and Kids Next Door, and to me, this is WAY TOO FAR.

Heck, even Sonic (whose Archie series, just to put it in context, is one of the few comics I read consistently) is not a character who I feel could work within the engine. Does that mean I would never consider Sonic? No. I like the character, and I might do him for the hell of it someday in the far distant future. But does he necessarily fit in FF... No.

[Alaric]

I think there's a big, gigantic difference between a RPG, with a single world shared between players, and people modding a game to essentially create entirely different games using the same engine, etc. Nothing people do on there own computers with this game impacts what anyone else does with it- if someone figures out a way to, say, create a Peanuts mod for FF, and they enjoy playing it, what's the harm in that? Or, for that matter, if someone wants to play Charlie Brown in the standard  campaign?

On the other hand, if you're not interested in meshing/skinning those characters, there's absolutely no reason why you should feel obligated to do so- any more than you should feel obligated to skin/mesh any character super hero or not.

[docdelorean88]

I think there's a big, gigantic difference between a RPG, with a single world shared between players, and people modding a game to essentially create entirely different games using the same engine, etc. Nothing people do on there own computers with this game impacts what anyone else does with it- if someone figures out a way to, say, create a Peanuts mod for FF, and they enjoy playing it, what's the harm in that? Or, for that matter, if someone wants to play Charlie Brown in the standard  campaign?

On the other hand, if you're not interested in meshing/skinning those characters, there's absolutely no reason why you should feel obligated to do so- any more than you should feel obligated to skin/mesh any character super hero or not.

Thank you. That was what i was trying to say, but, managed to get bogged down in rambling.(sorry 'bout that by the way) That's all we are saying Tom. Does it really bother you? Had Irrational Games intended this only for the game itself, they wouldn't have supplied fans with resources to do it, or keep other resources in the mix.

[John Jr.]

I believe Alaric hit the nail. FF is great because it let's us use any character we can create or download. I use only super-heroes (essentially classic DC and Marvel), but if someone can make a campaign with,let's say The Teen Titans and the One Piece crew, hey, it would be fun! 

[Figure Fan]

Heck, I've even tried to do a game within a game by creating HeroClix characters with Freedom Force stats and powers.

[BentonGrey]

Cool FF, ever Clix-ified the actual Freedom Forcers?

[deano_ue]

personally i look at as this

1)has the character ever had a comic book
2) does the character fit into the hero vs villain story
3) can a set of moves/style be created that fit the basis of the game but still remain true to the character

its aspects like this which in mind characters such as he-man,lion-o and optimus prime can be incorporated into the game where as others such as sonic, naturo could not.

[AfghanAnt]

oops. I meant "superhero" not "superhuman". My problem with the engine I always have a hard time making any character who isn't a fighter, brute or blaster.

[John Jr.]

Heck, I've even tried to do a game within a game by creating HeroClix characters with Freedom Force stats and powers.

Hey, a fellow clixer!
I was alway making customs for my HC games, most super-heroes, but even made some HC/ Mage Knight crossovers (JLA vs Dragons, for instance).
FF would be great in HC, too.

[BentonGrey]

I'm getting ready to buy some Aquaman customs, but now you've got me thinking about how much fun it would be to use the Ant and Man 'O War in a Clix game.

[DrMike2000]

FF wont work well for any genre that relies too heavily on weapons and vehicles.

It cant do stealth based gameplay easily, not without a lot of script hacking.

Other than that, it works really well for other genres.
It was a big eye opener for me actually, when I saw the system used to create superpowers. I'd always considered superhero games as much harder to make than say high fantasy or sci-if becuase of all the special code reuqired to simulate all the different possible powers.

FF's character creator kicks you off saying there are five basic powers (melee, three ranged and AoE), two defences and a grab-bag of oddities which do use special code,a nd thats it. My initial thought was "that doesnt cover everything! Even Champions RPG had more options than that" but once I started to play with it I realised how simple and efffective it actually was.

So yeah, the same system works just as well for medieval weapons and spells or science fiction.

[John Jr.]

I'm getting ready to buy some Aquaman customs, but now you've got me thinking about how much fun it would be to use the Ant and Man 'O War in a Clix game.

I made one classic HC Aquaman before they made one, nothing special, but i wanted all the original Super-Friends 
Ant would be great, but Man 'O War would be though to do in HC...
The FF power system is great, simple and versatile, so i believe it is easy convert characters to FF or from FF. 

[daglob]

I've seen Champions characters adapted to D&D, and there are two D&D characters in my Champions game (which also has pulp-style vigilantes, super-scientific super-geniuses [ala Kimball Kinnison], and futuristic cyborgs among the ordinary mutants, mutates, skill wizards, and powered armor types). It's about having fun. It's why I did Chuck Norris and a bunch of 1950s movie monsters.

Of course, what is fun for me may not be fun for everyone. I don't know how many people actually dowloaded those 1950s movie monsters, maybe nobody. I had fun doing them (and am still looking for ways to improve them).

So Freedom Force is a LOT like Champions-if you can figure out how to convert it, you can play it. And if someone wonder' why anyone would want to, that's perfectly alright.

[tommyboy]

It might be worth mentioning that superhero comics have always taken widely from other genres for their stories.
Off the top of my head look at; Ka-zar, Englehart's Avengers in the old West stories, the FF travelling back in time to meet Blackbeard, or Iron Man meeting Cleopatra.
Sci-fi, western, barbarian, detective, you name it, and you'll find a superhero comic with it in.
So if the comics can be so eclectic, the game can be too.
My interest has primarily been in making "mainstream" superhero stuff, like norse and greek gods, androids and powered armour suits, aliens and medieval based heroes on winged horses. In other words, I think the scope of "mainstream" is pretty big, and don't think there is much that should be excluded unless the game simply will not support it. My never-made "Finnegan's Wake" Mod, or the "Who wants to be a millionaire?" mission I dropped from the LSH Mod.

[John Jr.]

I agree with tommyboy. After all, Spider-man met the Transformers, the Silver Surfer battled Dracula  and  the Defenders allied themselves with Howard the Duck, so anything goes in a super-heroes comic book. If it can be done, go ahead and try it. Super-heroes live on a very flexible "universe".