A much needed stab to the ego... or boost. whatever.

[Tomato]

Mk, I saw this post over in AA's thread... and while it was something I wanted to respond to, I didn't want it detracting from AA's return to skinning in any way. Plus, I'm going to be a bit blunt about it, and I'd rather leave mods the option of deleting the entire thread rather than trying to sift through a whole thread for things to delete

Impressive. I'm glad my comment prompted you to show off.

But almost I'm crying now. How can I ever achieve such greatness?

Practice. A few years ago I would have scoffed at the notion of ever skinning at the same level as Afghan Ant or C6... but here I am, skinning at the same level they were at... a few years ago. Now if only I could get them both to stop for a few years so I can catch up, that'd be awesome 

All kidding aside though, you guys need to stop with this nonsense. I hear it all the time... "c6/aa is teh awesome. wah wah I can't compete." Well then I have a challenge for you. Calculate how many years you've been skinning. Then look at the skins c6, or aa, or even I was doing after that many years of practice. C6's stuff sucked. Many of AA's skins for Ink's meshes sucked. my skins... well let's just say I have the honor of reaching a level of suckostiy that c6 or aa will never achieve ever, and I am grateful for that fact.

Don't be discouraged just because you can't come into the game and instantly compete at this crazy level... there are very few skinners who are remotely able to do that, and those that are (Revenant, Murs, etc.) usually have some background in photoshop craziness already. And even with them, it takes practice and critique... I think murs is a prime example of that.

I see many skinners almost destroy themselves trying to be Courtnall 6... most of you won't come out and say it, but I can almost feel your insecurity ooze out of you during discussions. And I want to smack you.

TUE, I love your work because you share my love of all things bat-related. I have an entire section of batman characters that have your skins on them. Podmark, I love your stuff because you go into modern characters like X-force or New X-men, that C6 or AA won't touch. Da Glob, I love looking through your thread and seeing all the different characters you create. Hitman, I love your creativity... I mean really, a lanky blue dude with a tie dye shirt and bell bottom pants for a avatar? Genius. Unkoman... do I really have to say anything to you? I think between you, me, cas, and juancho, we've designed at least a quarter of the avatars on FR. Billdamn, your sense of character design has influenced me more than just a few times.

Experience and ability comes with time and critique. What you bring to the table, what's unique to you... in the long run, that's what people remember. Focus on that first, and those of us who have the ability already can help you get to where you want to be. We're all still learning... heck, murs has schooled me more than once with his tutorials, and I know I could drive him batty with all the layer and mask techniques I use when skinning.

[Figure Fan]

Hm, interesting points for sure. I think Unko might have been exaggerating for the sake of doing so, though I know what you're getting at. Perhaps it's more of a case of being able to put out a lot of skins of high quality that can leave one saying things like that. I've sat in awe at artists who can paint multiple paintings in one day while I'm stuck on one for a few days. It happens, I guess.

Still, Unko's skins are awesome in my opinion. As artists I think we all aspire to be like someone who is likely only ahead of us. If they were walking with us, I think it would be more competitive and less about admiration.

[Blkcasanova247]

My sentiments exactly 'mato. I would love to see Unko...or any of the "retired" skinners come back and be creative again...and not worry about "messuring up". Unko your FF originals are "SINGULAR" in their design asthetic. The Phantom Emnity...still my favorite original FF character design...EVER!!! Come on back to skinning if you have the time Unko...I'd love to se your work again and I'm sure there are a ton of folks who'd say the same.

[Podmark]

Bah Podmark cares not for C6s or AAs. He skins because he enjoys it and the characters he skins, which to me is the only real reason you should do it.

That said I wish I could have their speed, arghh skinning takes sooo long.

[herodad1]

shoot! i love unko's stuff. i like mainstream but his originals are some of my favorite.  unko, your originals have a golden age feel that i really like.

[The Hitman]

Hitman, [...] Genius.

FINALLY!! Someone acknowledges my awesomeness! 

[Cyber Burn]

shoot! i love unko's stuff. i like mainstream but his originals are some of my favorite.  unko, your originals have a golden age feel that i really like.

I wish I had the ability to replicate Unko's ability to create original characters that have such a golden age feel to them.

That being said, I have always been insecure about my ability to skin. But I still will try (very rarely now) to skin. I do it purely for the satisfaction of knowing that I tried, and seeing something that I made in a game that I enjoy playing.

I am in no way, shape, or form an artist of any sort. But I will speak up and say that I hope others who have never tried to skin at least make 1 attempt to try. It can be very satisfying, regardless of what the end result looks like.

[murs47]

Bah Podmark cares not for C6s or AAs. He skins because he enjoys it and the characters he skins, which to me is the only real reason you should do it.

Word.

[Outcast]

I am in no way, shape, or form an artist of any sort. But I will speak up and say that I hope others who have never tried to skin at least make 1 attempt to try. It can be very satisfying, regardless of what the end result looks like.

Well said Cyber Burn!

I wish I had the ability to replicate Unko's ability to create original characters that have such a golden age feel to them.

Likewise. But it's really nice to know you're still going to try and skin Cyber Burn. Just try your best man.

[Tomato]

That said I wish I could have their speed, arghh skinning takes sooo long.

Agreed. I took steps when I made my bases to make things move a bit faster, but things still move at their own pace for me (mainly bacause I INSIST on doing all facework manually every time I skin. HUUUUGE chunk of time). Still, I'd rather do that then not be happy with what I produce, so whateverz.

[Courtnall6]

I have been informed, over the years, that there have been skinners who quit because they couldn't compete with me or couldn't handle the attention I was getting. This was very disappointing to hear since the skinners that quit were very talented and I enjoyed seeing their work.

For me, seeing someone make a brillant skin would always inspire me rather than discourage me. I would have given up long ago if that were untrue. I routinely post "Then and Now" pics in my thread to show myself and others how far I've come by sticking with it. Practice makes perfect as they say. When I started skinning 8 years ago I barely knew how to use Photoshop. Virtually everything I know know is self taught and I'm still learning today.

Take AA's recent skin post. I am blown away by the pics he posted...it just made me open up Photoshop and want to skin something. Inspiration at work folks!

All I can say is try hard not to get discouraged and keep pushing yourself to get better. It's the only way you will.

mainly bacause I INSIST on doing all facework manually every time I skin. HUUUUGE chunk of time

This became one of my quests a few months ago. I stuck with my base face for so long because it took a huge chunk of time to make a new one from scratch. Since I forced myself to make a new face everytime...I've become better at it and faster. I can do a face in half the time it took me a year ago now.

[herodad1]

yeah, skinners hang in there. if you have my talent this is the only face i can make!   

[Cyber Burn]

I have been informed, over the years, that there have been skinners who quit because they couldn't compete with me or couldn't handle the attention I was getting.

Yup...that was the reason I quit...I just couldn't take it anymore...just kidding...

Seriously though, I know that I'll never be as skilled as all of you guys, but all of you other skinners are a BIG inspiration, and I have always appreciated the constructive criticisms and the encouragement that you all have given to me, and to many others as well.

[JKCarrier]

For me, seeing someone make a brillant skin would always inspire me rather than discourage me.

My "wish list" is so big, I'll never get around to it all anyway. So when someone does a really great skin, it's a relief...that's one less I have to do! 

[billdamn22]

Well said, Tomato. There are a lot of skinners here who never got enough credit for the quality of skins that they produce. Where are they now? Most have "given up" over the lack of replies or critiques in their skin threads. Others fall into the "I'll never be as good as AA or C6 category." Me? I have had many, many computer crashes and lost so many skopes and skins that I could not bring myself to start anew.
I have been "secretly" skinning for months and have not shown any completed works because to be honest, I haven't finished a skin.... Mainly because I want to better my techniques. Will I jump back into skinning full time? No. I don't have the time to put out the amount of skins that I used to.
You want more skinners to hang around? Support them....

[AfghanAnt]

Consider me confused how an innocent comment from a former collaborator could spawn something like this. I guess will never understand why threads like these exist in general. It always reads as if one is making the declaration "where are my presents?" at someone else's birthday party. Would other skinners preferred I never skinned publicly again? I don't think that is what is being stated but when you've seen more than one of these types of threads where you are either the focal or starting point, it feels that way.

I'm not sure why anyone would want to be me - as a skinner/skoper/content creator or otherwise. While I am always glad people like the stuff I skin, I never been one to skin for the masses. I think that is why I was able to do so many more skins and expand creatively during periods of retirement. The only person's opinion that mattered was mine, so once I was happy with the finished product it was done. This is a thought process I encourage all skinners, meshers, artists to have. It really makes the creating more enjoyable when its not a competition or judging.


#lost #crabsinabucket #immaletyoufinishbut

[Tomato]

honestly it wasn't so much unko in particular as much as thaat post was the straw that broke the camel's back... as I mentioned, the whole not as good thing is something that's come up a lot. Plus I felt like this was a way to credit some skinners whose work I don't nescessarily comment on a lot, but nevertheless respect (like daglob... I might never really post in his thread because his skins don't particularly stand out to me, but I feel like he deserves more praise then he often gets just because he goes out and does the characters nobody else will).

[steamteck]

I think both Dagob and Kenn have a very nice fel to their skins and I love thir character choices. Daglob's output is incredible!

Anyway if one really looks at these other folks skins , you can often be surprized at the wondeful little  details they often include and thefeeling they put into it.

[AfghanAnt]

honestly it wasn't so much unko in particular as much as thaat post was the straw that broke the camel's back... as I mentioned, the whole not as good thing is something that's come up a lot. Plus I felt like this was a way to credit some skinners whose work I don't nescessarily comment on a lot, but nevertheless respect (like daglob... I might never really post in his thread because his skins don't particularly stand out to me, but I feel like he deserves more praise then he often gets just because he goes out and does the characters nobody else will).

See that confuses me even more - you acknowledge other people are providing content that you respect but you can't directly comment on their thread?

[Blkcasanova247]

Hey AA...I'm kinda not getting where this thread could be construed negetively. Tom made a statement basically saying "skin if you wanna skin and don't worry about trying to compete with someone elses work". And we all are commenting how great certain skinners are in this thread...why is that derogatory? It'd be great if certain creators returned to FR but nobody has their hand out...begging for skins. No disrespect bud but I guess I'm confused now.

[Previsionary]

I think you extrapolated things from AA's post that aren't there, Casanova. He's pointing out a flaw in Tom's logic that has been pointed out time and time again (remember, I had a feedback thread that said basically the same thing 2-3 years ago). If you like someone's work, why don't you tell that person so regardless of whether you like the character he or she skins or not? That's one of the major reasons old skinners stopped participating in the first place. They may have had people who loved their work, but they never got any type of feedback so thought they weren't needed. Regardless, this isn't the thread for that discussion, so I'll say nothing more. I'm glad Tom's little experiment has inspired others to step back into the ring, even if it's only for a short amount of time.

[Blkcasanova247]

Sorry...I was commenting on his original post. Darn it now I've confused you Prev.

[Deaths Jester]

Bah Podmark cares not for C6s or AAs. He skins because he enjoys it and the characters he skins, which to me is the only real reason you should do it.

Word.

My sentiments exactly...though the fact that no one has even brought up my moldy name does bother me a bit...looks like I'll have to un-retire and get back to throwing around some texture goodness!

[daglob]

Bah Podmark cares not for C6s or AAs. He skins because he enjoys it and the characters he skins, which to me is the only real reason you should do it.

Word.

My sentiments exactly...though the fact that no one has even brought up my moldy name does bother me a bit...looks like I'll have to un-retire and get back to throwing around some texture goodness!

We can hope, DJ 

I decided a long time ago that this wasn't a competition. If it were, considering everyone I'd have to contend with, I'd puke.

[Shaboba]

I, personally, am incredibly satisfied with that one Blackheart skin I made a while ago. I made a lot of skins/skopes of original characters just over the summer but I would never release them, as a few of them were kitbashed in certain ways for practice purposes (plus they all kind of got deleted by accident, oops). I'm no brilliant skinner by any means, but I still enjoy doing it, as it's a good creative release and I feel proud of myself afterward, especially when it turns out well. Skinners like C6 do not intimidate me at all, because their work is not a reflection of the quality of my own stuff. It's not that kind of community... or at least, it shouldn't be.

The only thing that matters is that you have fun with what you do. PERIOD. If you're not having fun, what is the point? Freedom Force is a game, after all.

[Kenn]

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


Sorry.  I'm just amused that seven years after the Community deified Courtnall that these threads and thoughts still come up.

If you skin, or mesh, or mod, or whatever, you have to do it to please yourself.   NO ONE ELSE!

I've been there.  Lord knows my taste in skinning style is so far removed from the majority's tastes that it isn't funny.   And I still remember the annoyance I felt when people started releasing skins of obscure characters I'd released hexes and skins just six months prior.  But I moved past it.    

My creative output has dropped off.  But that has more to do with this being an 8 year old game and the rest of my life getting in the way.  But I've never actually stopped.

[crimsonquill]

If you skin, or mesh, or mod, or whatever, you have to do it to please yourself.   NO ONE ELSE!

I agree 100%.. I started skoping to make all the characters that I wanted to see in FF and my poor skinning abilities are pretty much eclipsed by the majority of the skinners in this community. I just started to make rough skins for my skopes because I wanted to learn with each skin I did and hopefully inspire some more talented folks to take a shot at one or two of my skopes (if they wanted to, of course)...

The only thing that matters is that you have fun with what you do. PERIOD. If you're not having fun, what is the point? Freedom Force is a game, after all.

Damn straight!

- CQ

[Outcast]

I don't really see what's wrong with wanting to be as good as someone else at skinning? Besides being a compliment, if the desire is strong enough, i think it can act as a good motivation for someone to try skinning, and spend some time practicing on it till he/she improves.

I agree that wanting to skin is a big factor in making skins, but there's also one more to thing to consider. And that is time. I know of a few people here who would want to skin and mesh like they did in the past. But understandably they are a bit busy with other things in real life right now. Like some people here, there's nothing i would like more than to see these people or other members get back into FF. But even if these people can't make the time for it now, that doesn't necessarily mean that they don't want to.

I believe the same can be applied to those who don't usually comment on other threads. I think each of us have their own reasons for not posting on a particular thread. But that also doesn't necessarily mean that we don't appreciate the thread/post/skin/mesh/fx/mod or whatever. Of course, I think posting something is likely better than silent appreciation.

[UnkoMan]

Oh boy, look at this huge thread that I am not going to read because it is way too long.

I was totally joking with that comment, by the way. My skins are great. Not AS good, but I also haven't really done it in years. I really ought to get back into the swing of things some day.

I get that you are mostly talking about other people though, who are serious with comments like that, and I agree. Folks ought to just keep on trucking. My first skins were ultra horrible. And we have a ton of great skinners here. Folks are really blowing me away these days, especially you Tomato. And Murs. And... aw heck, there's lots of fantastic people now. I love it. A real inspiration!

PS: I don't want a bunch of people talkin' 'bout me! I'll get all embarrassed! I actually was sort of upset my comment made people mention me in AA's thread. I don't want to steal no spotlights!! YEESH!