Defense Mechanism (FFX Question)

[BentonGrey]

So, I'm working on my Hulk build, and I'm trying out the Defense Mechanism with the Adrenaline Surge customization.  In theory, this is perfect, but in practice, it doesn't seem to be working properly.  I'm not seeing the increase in healing, and the strength boost doesn't seem to be caping out properly.  Hulk hit the Black Panther for 382 damage during my test match.  That seems a tad excessive.   Anyone have any advice?

[spydermann93]

So, I'm working on my Hulk build, and I'm trying out the Defense Mechanism with the Adrenaline Surge customization.  In theory, this is perfect, but in practice, it doesn't seem to be working properly.  I'm not seeing the increase in healing, and the strength boost doesn't seem to be caping out properly.  Hulk hit the Black Panther for 382 damage during my test match.  That seems a tad excessive.   Anyone have any advice?

Seems like you have the "Strength through Pain" customization on, not the Adrenaline Surge.

Make sure that you look in the "ffxcustom.py" file in the "Missions/scripts" folder to see if the customization was saved properly.  He can be found in the "PainResponse" section of the file.

You should see line that looks like this:

Code Select Expand

["hulk","adrenalineSurge",""],

[BentonGrey]

Nope, the customization was right, but the strength glitch hasn't repeated itself.  I've switched over to the Strength and Resistance one, and that seems to be working well.  I've got my Hulk with Physical Resistance, plus that and Fast Healing, and he seems to be doing well.  I wonder if the previous glitch had something to do with him just taking too much damage too quickly for the game to keep up properly.

[spydermann93]

Nope, the customization was right, but the strength glitch hasn't repeated itself.  I've switched over to the Strength and Resistance one, and that seems to be working well.  I've got my Hulk with Physical Resistance, plus that and Fast Healing, and he seems to be doing well.  I wonder if the previous glitch had something to do with him just taking too much damage too quickly for the game to keep up properly.

Well, with adrenaline surge, he should be getting enough energy per hit (proportional to damage taken) to regenerate himself quite effectively, and unless he dies in one hit, he should get the bonuses just fine.

And if you are hurting him rapidly, I've seen through playtesting that while the healing initially is a tad slow, it will eventually catch up and make it really hard to kill him, which I really like.

[BentonGrey]

Does it use progressive forms of Regeneration or what, Spyder?

[spydermann93]

Does it use progressive forms of Regeneration or what, Spyder?

Sort of.  From what I understand, based on the damage that the character receives, he'll get more energy to sustain the regeneration and the regeneration will last longer.  It's like they get "Regenerative" for a short time.  The energy usage is much like "Regenerative" itself, using less energy per "tick" (each moment of health regen).  The main difference is how long the temporary regeneration is active, which again, is based on damage.

[BentonGrey]

Okay, I think I may have isolated the problem a bit.  I've been testing my Hulk, and he seems to be working more or less as he should.  Then I put him in a match with Thor, and the same problem recurs.  It seems that something about Thor's build is triggering the runaway strength bonus for Hulk.  My guess is it has something to do with Thor's having Combat Skill.  Anyone have any thoughts on a resolution here?  As it is, Thor will never stand a chance against Hulk, because every time he hits him, Hulk will be doing 200 points of damage.

[spydermann93]

Okay, I think I may have isolated the problem a bit.  I've been testing my Hulk, and he seems to be working more or less as he should.  Then I put him in a match with Thor, and the same problem recurs.  It seems that something about Thor's build is triggering the runaway strength bonus for Hulk.  My guess is it has something to do with Thor's having Combat Skill.  Anyone have any thoughts on a resolution here?  As it is, Thor will never stand a chance against Hulk, because every time he hits him, Hulk will be doing 200 points of damage.

That's actually quite strange.  I've never tested out that scenario, before.  Huh.

I'll try and toy around with some custom hero files and see if I can replicate the results.

[spydermann93]

Ok, so I made a custom character with 8 Endurance, 9 Strength, Flesh Material, and has both Physical Resistance and Defense Mechanism (Adrenaline Surge).

From my tests, with an exact copy of Thor's file from MA in another mod, the custom character is only ever doing 98 at max, overpowered, to Thor after receiving an overpowered "Thunderous Strength" (the three hit combo).  I will test the same thing in MA itself, but I'm expecting the same results.

What it sounds like to me, Benton, is that you have the "Strengththroughpain" customization applied, somehow.  I don't know what's going on in your Defense Mechanism attribute, but it sounds like there's something wrong with how your game is reading your customizations.  If it is the MA mod, then I should be getting the same results in the test build that you sent me.

EDIT: Ok, everything seems to be functioning more along the lines of what you were describing, Benton.  I had Thor use "Unfettered Might" and then use an overpowered "Mjolnir's Might" on the test Hulk.  It did 282 damage (yowzers!).  However, upon immediate retaliation, the test hulk, even with an overpowered, High Magnitude attack, only did about 112 at max (usually falling between high 60's and low 90's).  Other than the extremely high damage values, I wasn't seeing any clear advantage between either of them.  Thor and TestHulk were actually fairly close.

Actually, after controlling TestHulk myself, I was losing more often than winning!   I'll pit the AI against each other, now, and see how the win/loss ratio plays out.

[BentonGrey]

Thanks for checking this out, Spyder.  There's definitely some kind of strange interaction going on, as every match with Thor and Hulk was over by the Hulk's second or third punch (after taking damage).

[spydermann93]

Would you mind copying your Hulk hero file and sending it to me?

I would like to test under the same conditions that you are so that I can eliminate as many variables as I can.

[BentonGrey]

You've got mail!

[spydermann93]

Awesome.  I'll start testing this out and try to see what the problem is.

[BentonGrey]

Hmm, I'm still seeing it, but I'm thinking it may just be a result of Thor hitting so freaking hard.  What if we halve the strength bonus cap in the attribute?  How do I do that?

[spydermann93]

I'm still learning Python, but perhaps this will work:

Code Select Expand

### Strength Bonus ###
    bonus=0
    if ffx.FFX_ObjectGetAttr(char,'painResponse_AS')==0:
        ffx.FFX_ObjectSetAttr(char,'painResponse_AS',1)
        bonus=1
        ffx.RegTimer('cancelAdrenalineSurgeCheck',6,0,char)
        ffx.RegCharState(char,PCSTATE_BLANK,'cancelAdrenalineSurge')
    if Object_GetPrimaryState(char)!=PCSTATE_ENRAGED:
        str=Object_GetAttr(char,'strength')+bonus
        Object_SetAttr(char,'strength',str)
        Object_SetAttr(char,'baseStrength',str)
    else:
        ffx.RegCharState(char,PCSTATE_NORMAL,'postEnragedStrReset')

In your "ffx2.py", find the "adrenalineSurge" entry and replace the ### Strength Bonus ### section with the code above.  Be sure to back up the file before you try this, though.  It should work, but it never hurts to be safe.

[BentonGrey]

Thanks Spyder!  So that would change all of the options that use a strength increase?  Could you give me one for Strength and Resistance through Pain?

[spydermann93]

Thanks Spyder!  So that would change all of the options that use a strength increase?  Could you give me one for Strength and Resistance through Pain?

I can try and come up with something.  It would be a bit more difficult, but I think that I can find a way to get what you're looking for.

How much of a decrease would you like to see in the attributes?  I mean, in relation to how they perform now.

[BentonGrey]

Well, after Thor pastes Hulk one, the Jade Giant is regularly doing 150-200 damage with his regular punch.  I'd like the proportions to be such that he doesn't do over 100.  Thor at his hardest with his strongest attack can do just a little somewhere north of that, and my builds are such that 100 HP is a big amount, even from the big bruisers.  At the moment, I imagine Hulk could even take Galactus on!

[spydermann93]

Well, after Thor pastes Hulk one, the Jade Giant is regularly doing 150-200 damage with his regular punch.  I'd like the proportions to be such that he doesn't do over 100.  Thor at his hardest with his strongest attack can do just a little somewhere north of that, and my builds are such that 100 HP is a big amount, even from the big bruisers.  At the moment, I imagine Hulk could even take Galactus on!

Hmm... ok.  I might be able to come up with something.

Right now, the Hulk's strongest melee, overpowered, without any strength bonuses from Defense Mechanism, hits around the 90's, on average, to a target without any resistances to Crushing or invulnerability attributes.  With any sort of strength bonus, he would go over the 100 mark.

With that in mind, the bonus would have to be low or I would have to require much more damage to give him a higher bonus.

[BentonGrey]

Well, his average damage without overpower is somewhere around 50.  So, if we can get him a bonus that doesn't get his average damage over 100 and his overpowered damage over, say 130, that might work for us.

[spydermann93]

Well, his average damage without overpower is somewhere around 50.  So, if we can get him a bonus that doesn't get his average damage over 100 and his overpowered damage over, say 130, that might work for us.

Ah, ok.  So you want the base damage under 100.  That will work out much better, I think.

[BentonGrey]

How's this coming, Spyder?

[spydermann93]

The damage is coming out within the ball park, but I can't seem to get any increase in resistance from the Hulk.

I'm using StrengthandReisistanceThroughPain, but he doesn't seem to be getting anymore resilient.

[spydermann93]

Ok, I found that if I give hulk any number points of invulnerability, the ability works just fine.

Now, all I need to do is figure out a good amount of durability increase in our green friend, and we'll be cooking with butane!

[BentonGrey]

Awesome, thanks Spyder!  I'll do some testing.  What level of Invulnerability did you give your Hulk?

[spydermann93]

Awesome, thanks Spyder!  I'll do some testing.  What level of Invulnerability did you give your Hulk?

Just 2.  I removed Physical Resistance, kept him as Stone, and with his Defense Mechanism, he can take some high powered blows.

The beauty of it is that if he's hit with a really strong attack initially, standard attacks will do next to nothing to him.  But if you just keep punching him with standard punches in the beginning, he might not take a lot of damage, but you can beat him so long as you don't just keep beating on him.

[BentonGrey]

Initial tests are looking good, Spyder!  Thanks!

[spydermann93]

Initial tests are looking good, Spyder!  Thanks!

Glad to help, Benton!