The Marvel Thread

[tommyboy]

I found Dark Avengers rather...lite.

Spoiler

First we get two pages of Morgana deciding not to kill Doom when he was a boy, and those two pages could have been covered by one dialogue balloon saying something like "I could kill Doom when he was a child....but no, that will not do. He must know it's me who kills him, and why". So she wants to kill him as a child,goes there, stands talking to...errr...herself? him asleep? Us? For two pages. But doesn't kill him. Nothing Happens.
Then some Bendistalk where he unsuccessfully impersonates Warren Ellis writing the Thunderbolts, and nothing happens.
Then its the big fight twixt Doom and Morgana with page after page of Bendismagictalk "miftandana pantswriterana" etc etc etc. It's so painful to read that stuff I think I may be crying a little, just remembering it. I will grant that Something Happens here, sort of. Doom loses.
Then it's the big Dark Avengers/Morgana fight, replete with Sentry ripping her head off. Then as noted above the absurd paradox of her claiming to be able to come back to the future before she was killed, and do it again and again, a notion which an amoeba might find a little low-brow after a moments thought. So essentially, Nothing Happens.
Then she makes Generic Alien Spiderman Villain eat someone (Ares, I think, by this point my eyes were glazing over), except of course he doesn't really eat him, because, all-together now...."Nothing Happens!"
If you were to just read it by looking at the pictures, it wouldn't be all that bad. And even with the writing it's only Bendisbad, not truly awful.

I give it 2 out of 5, for the art.

[cmdrkoenig67]

Okay....What in Hell is wrong with Bendis?...

Spoiler

Why can't the man write a good story?  Seriously...Sentry rips off a villain's head?  Morgan Le Fay yammering on and on about nothing and doing nothing?  Ugh...Is this Bendis' job at Marvel?..To sucker people into buying Avengers books that have nothing substantial in them at 3.99 a pop?  I'm so glad I stopped buying anything written by him.

The art was only a 2 out of 5, that's not very good either....Sigh...

[The Hitman]

...Is this Bendis' job at Marvel?..To sucker people into buying Avengers books that have nothing substantial in them at 3.99 a pop?

Actually... yes.

[Talavar]

X-Factor 39 & 40  Peter David asked readers not to spoil these issues, but nuts to him.  If you don't want to know, don't click the spoiler tag.

Spoiler

So in X-Factor 39, Siryn has Madrox's kid after a difficult labour and an emergency caesarian section.  Long story short, Madrox unintentionally aborbs the baby, who was supposedly a duplicate.  Siryn goes crazy and attacks Madrox, popping her stitches, then later threatens to kill Madrox if she ever sees him again.

I really disliked this issue.  Hated it might be the right sentiment, and here's why: Siryn's pregnancy, difficult labour and the loss of her child before her eyes is all just a subtler variation on the 'women in the refridgerator' syndrome. 

For those who don't know, or know a misinterpretation of 'women in the refridgerator' syndrome, it's when there's some act of violence against a female character, solely as a plot device to move along or motivate the male protagonist.  It's an ugly form of sensationalist writing, and one I thought Peter David was better than.  That, and the fact that whole thing is based on sketchy techno-babble just makes its status as a plot device all the more transparent.

X-Factor 40 has Madrox return to see a dupe he didn't reabsorb, one who became a minister and has a family.  Madrox intends to kill himself after being alienated from the rest of the team.  The minister-dupe tries to stop him & fails, only for a woman to show up and get Madrox to stop: Layla Miller, all grown up and somehow back from the future. 

That ending made me want to say, "What a twist!" ala Robot Chicken, though I'll admit, it does intrigue me.  I initially decided X-factor would get 1 more issue to turn things around for me after 39, or I was dropping the book.  While I still may drop it - the bloom is definitely off this rose - I'm on-board for at least one more.

[Previsionary]

X-Factor 39 & 40  Peter David asked readers not to spoil these issues, but nuts to him.  If you don't want to know, don't click the spoiler tag.

Spoiler

So in X-Factor 39, Siryn has Madrox's kid after a difficult labour and an emergency caesarian section.  Long story short, Madrox unintentionally aborbs the baby, who was supposedly a duplicate.  Siryn goes crazy and attacks Madrox, popping her stitches, then later threatens to kill Madrox if she ever sees him again.

I really disliked this issue.  Hated it might be the right sentiment, and here's why: Siryn's pregnancy, difficult labour and the loss of her child before her eyes is all just a subtler variation on the 'women in the refridgerator' syndrome. 

For those who don't know, or know a misinterpretation of 'women in the refridgerator' syndrome, it's when there's some act of violence against a female character, solely as a plot device to move along or motivate the male protagonist.  It's an ugly form of sensationalist writing, and one I thought Peter David was better than.  That, and the fact that whole thing is based on sketchy techno-babble just makes its status as a plot device all the more transparent.

X-Factor 40 has Madrox return to see a dupe he didn't reabsorb, one who became a minister and has a family.  Madrox intends to kill himself after being alienated from the rest of the team.  The minister-dupe tries to stop him & fails, only for a woman to show up and get Madrox to stop: Layla Miller, all grown up and somehow back from the future. 

That ending made me want to say, "What a twist!" ala Robot Chicken, though I'll admit, it does intrigue me.  I initially decided X-factor would get 1 more issue to turn things around for me after 39, or I was dropping the book.  While I still may drop it - the bloom is definitely off this rose - I'm on-board for at least one more.

I find it a bit amusing that more people spoke out against what Pete David did in X-factor than what he did in She-hulk a few issues ago during the Lady Libs arc. ^^. Anyway, X-factor 39 is passed the expiration date, but issue 40 is still fresh, so I'll stay vague. Issue 40 was very mediocre and dark until the final page. If it wasn't for that final page, I don't know if I could recommend the last two issues because I'm very wary of books that rely too heavily on twist endings and shockers. Sure, it may get you to talking...but it also feels cheap.

[GhostMachine]

I'm about of a mind that when the day comes that Joe Q is no longer in charge, if someone sane takes over as EIC, the first thing they need to do is say "Okay, EVERYTHING that happened under that moron fanboy who proceeded me NEVER happened!". The second thing? Fire Bendis, or ban him from working on anything outside the Ultimate line.

[bearded]

I find it a bit amusing that more people spoke out against what Pete David did in X-factor than what he did in She-hulk a few issues ago during the Lady Libs arc. ^^. Anyway, X-factor 39 is passed the expiration date, but issue 40 is still fresh, so I'll stay vague. Issue 40 was very mediocre and dark until the final page. If it wasn't for that final page, I don't know if I could recommend the last two issues because I'm very wary of books that rely too heavily on twist endings and shockers. Sure, it may get you to talking...but it also feels cheap.

i've been trying to find this ref, what did he do in she hulk during the ll arc?

[marhawkman]

She Hulk, Jazinda, Sue Storm, Valkyrie?, and some nutcase named Thundra band together to take care of a humanitarian aid problem. She Hulk literally gets captured and tied to the villain's bed..... somehow he'd managed to come up with a (daterapeish) drug that could subdue her and used it as a gas grenade. she then had to hope Jazinda rescued her before something happened.....

[Previsionary]

i've been trying to find this ref, what did he do in she hulk during the ll arc?

What Marhawk said...but I wrote a whole post on it earlier in this thread. Just check that out.

[marhawkman]

Hmm *reads* actually the reverse has been done in the past. It's just that it doesn't seem to have quite the same impact...

[thanoson]

Ok, what about poor Hulk during the Maestro storyline? He was paralyzed and the Betty lookalike slave had her, umm... way with him as he was helpless. I believe Peter David was responsible for that too?

[Talavar]

The difference between X-factor 39 and the recent She-hulk storyline is that, as horrible as a sexual assault would be, is that it's not just happening to her give the actual main character something to do - She-hulk is the main character.

By bringing up Women in Refridgerator syndrome, I'm not saying fiction shouldn't ever deal with bad things that may happen to women, I'm saying that they shouldn't be used so often as simple devices to move the plot along for another, male, character.

[Previsionary]

My point was that whatever you may think of Siryn's storyline (which was used to finally answer a question related to Jamie from early on), Pete's She-hulk story (where he made a normie more powerful by adding an extra dimension that was not needed to push a point home) was worse scene-wise, imo. Both were cruel-worthy, but at least what happened to Siryn served a purpose in some regards and helped forward some part of the x-factor lore. What did She-hulk's scene really serve storywise? I had more written, but it enters heavy territory, so I'll save it.
----------

On the light side, previews:

NC: Quitting time - This interview does nothing for me. It actually makes me dislike the idea a bit more than I already did.

Messiah War

[marhawkman]

Actually I thought the "answer" was STUPID! Um, seriously the child is half Siryn. How do you absorb someone else?

[Talavar]

Actually I thought the "answer" was STUPID! Um, seriously the child is half Siryn. How do you absorb someone else?

Exactly!  And really, a child is genetically half the mother, but physically about 99.99% contributed by the mother.

[BentonGrey]

*Pulls out his classic X-Men and goes back to ignoring modern comics*

[Previsionary]

eh, when it comes to scientific matters in non-scientific books, I tend to ignore it unless it's really pushing the boundaries of common sense. I mean, we're arguing about a guy that can pop out a clone with different personality traits. A guy that has produced a clone in someone before...but for killing purposes. But then again, I did say I was wary of books that rely on shockers and twist endings, which is what PAD is skirting on as of now. When he finishes tying up all his plots, then I'll have more definite thoughts on his storylines, ramifications, character development, and specifically, this Jamie/Siryn/M situation.

[marhawkman]

The Layla one sounds cool.  this one was not.

[Podmark]

Read some comics today.

X-Force 12:

Spoiler

Bastion is using the Leper Queen to get the Sapien League to abduct mutants (so far Beautiful Dreamer and Fever Pitch) and infect them with the new Legacy Virus, unleashing them on staged rallies for the Friends of Humanity. The mutants die of the virus but take hundreds of humans with them due to it causing flair-ups with their powers. Thus anti-mutant feelings are increased, more mutants die, and Bastion distracts the X-Men from his true objective.

Cyclops finds out about this, and sends X-Force in teams of two to different rallies trying to stop the them. X-23 and Archangel are caught in Fever Pitch's explosive flair-up.

Earlier, Cyclops meets with Beast. Hank has built as short use portable time travel device. Scott wants 7 of them. Beast is suspicious.

Wolfsbane is MIA having run off with her Asgardian wolf prince.

Tying into Young X-Men, Bastion uses Donald Pierce to learn everything about the X-Men's new base.

I enjoyed the issue. A new scary threat, insight into Bastion and his cabal, tying into the rest of the X-line (as poor as the rest may be). And some good art. A solid 4/5.
Next month Hellion guest stars; possibly for the last time...

Avengers: The Initiative 22:

Spoiler

The New Warriors show up to fight Clor - the real New Warriors...or as close as we're going to get. Doesn't really go too well though and the rest of the heroes have to help. And that doesn't go to well either. It takes the death of one of the remaining Scarlet Spiders and the return of a rejuvenated Baron Von Blitzschlag to convince him he is in fact a clone/android. Clor leaves heading to Asgard to destroy it.
Trauma and Thor Girl are both fine.
Justice reveals the real reason the New Warriors returned to Camp Hammond: to retrieve the body of MVP.

The Shadow Initiative are caught by Hardball who now has Scorpion as his new squeeze.

I love the Scarlet Spiders, so I'm pretty sad about Michael's death. 

Enjoyed this too. It's mostly just a big fight scene, but basically the whole cast appears and we get little tidbits here and there for most of the main-er characters - which is the type of thing I like about this book.

Another thing I realized reading this book is that a big fight scene with a guy like Chor is so much more tense to read in a book like this. None of these guys are A-list characters, it's so much easier for a writer to kill or maim any of them that I'm honestly worried turning each page about what could happen. And that's a good thing in my book. I pretty much love the whole cast here from Justice down to Gorilla Girl - I don't want anything to happen to them.

Art is by Ramos, it's funky, but I like it. 4/5

Mighty Avengers 22:

Spoiler

Through flashback we're shown that Modred manipulated Quicksilver into getting the Darkhold for him and used his body as the host for Chthon, the god of chaos.
After a little scuffle, Hulk won't work with the assembled heroes and runs off. Jocasta was damaged in the fight and Hank stops to repair her. The remaining heroes are told by a villager where Modred is and go to fight him. Modred summons some kind of rock minions that the heroes can't seem to beat.
Meanwhile Hulk has run into Iron Man, who he still blames for Planet Hulk. Iron Man manages to beat Hulk by igniting the giant rocket he used to get there.
Modred is distracted by his prisoner Bova and the arriving Iron Man knocks him out with a repulser blast. Dropping off Banner's unconscious body, he says he'll take charge of the situation.
Bova holds the Darkhold book - it's words are currently on Modred as part of his spell and Quicksilver is stuck within the book. 

Didn't enjoy this issue as much as the first. The art is worse, and Pham was inconsistent to begin with. Also it's all about magic gobbledygook - which I'm rarely a fan of. Still I'm enjoying the team interaction and I'm sure I'll enjoy this book alot more when we're out of the magic stuff. 3/5

[tommyboy]

By all rights, I should have really enjoyed Mighty Avengers #22 a lot more than I did. Just because it's not Bendis writing it. But I too felt the art was a bit lacking, it felt sketchy and like layouts rather than full art some of the time. It was serviceable enough, I guess, I could tell who was who and what was happening, but it didn't really appeal to me.
The story was OK, but felt oddly disconnected from current Marvel continuity somehow, even though they had definite points to establish it in continuity.
I should be a lot more excited by a "proper" avengers book. But the new wasp looks wrong to me and seems to be exactly the same powerset as yellowjacket was, so it's just pointless and a little creepy, almost like Hank was wearing Jan's old costumes. Jocasta seems off somehow, maybe that's her new character but I don't quite know who she is or what she can do anymore. USAgent was last seen in Omega flight but that seems completely forgotten about now, I can't remember much about it, anyway. I have no idea about the Hulk anymore, and he seems "unreal" somehow. Is he WWHulk? Red Hulk? Dumb Old Hulk? I don't know. Iron Man I've pretty much come to loathe as an autocratic corrupt incompetent. Quicksilver and the Scarlet witch have been pretty much ruined and diluted to the point where I have no idea what their powers and characters are anymore. Stature is OK but I don't care about her one way or the other and her powers are a redundancy with Pym on the team. Hercules and Cho I'm OK with.
Now, none of these minus points about the characters are down to Slott himself. I absolve him of blame for the fact that I no longer know about or care about 90% of the Marvel Universe. And he is starting to make me want to read an Avengers book again (Initiative doesn't count as an Avengers book to me).
It does feel different to the Bendis era, and better. Maybe it will take a longer period of time to wash away the bad memories.
Of course, Busiek and Perez did it in their first issue, and I liked Slott's first issue, but Pham is no Perez, by a long long way.

[Previsionary]

I didn't particularly enjoy Mighty or New Avengers and it really hurts the story for me to see dialogue and scenes repeated week after week. I understand the point of it...but for the same scenes from a week or two ago to still be playing out this week is a bit annoying for me personally. Regardless, Mighty Avengers was very meh for me (3) only because Hercules's voice is still a bit off and it's not very engaging as of the moment. I'm not so sure that the book should have started off with this plot especially considering QS has been off panel since his one shot where he randomly got his original powers back. I think he needed more time to expand before being thrust back into a story where he ends up trapped/body kidnapped. I guess the same thing could be said about Scarlet Witch who hasn't been touched on since.........development wise, Beast and Hawkeye sought her out...storywise, Young Avengers presents. As for the Hulk situation, I think that should have been handled a long time ago. It should have been done in his book...unfortunately, he shares half of that book with Red Hulk and Banner basically gets no plot outside of "chasing Red Hulk".

As for New...um...I don't really remember the bulk of it except the New Avengers standing around watching the broadcast from...2 weeks ago? Well, I remember the basic plot, but I wasn't impressed by it. At the very least, everyone will know about Daken (Wolverine's son) much quicker than I imagined they would. Seeing Daken actually interact with other villains and attempt to get along with them (considering how that has worked out in the past) could be interesting...if anyone ever gets around to giving him his own personality and not just "angst-ridden Logan lite". This is also a 3 for me. Oh, I guess Clint's media speech at the end of the book about Norman and his regime could make some people happy.

[Talavar]

Count me in as let down by both New & Mighty Avengers.  For a 50th issue, New Avenger was nothing special (they fight Hood's gang again - yay?), and Mighty Avengers just seems...scattered.  The team is all over the place, with power-redundancies & sketchy character choices, characterization seems flat, and the plot just isn't doing it for me.

Of more enjoyment was Nova 22

Spoiler

Last time, Richard was depowered by the Worldmind, who's majorly recruiting for the Nova Corps, and doubts were raised as to Richie's sanity after so long with the entire nova force in him. 

In this issue, we learn that Richie's not the one with sanity issues - the Worldmind seems to have gone round the bend.  The new centurions are being subtly mind-controlled, and threaten Richard when he discovers it.

This is still one of Marvel's best books, hands down.  I hope the current issue is resolved well.

Edit: and is it just me, or does Runaways suck now?

[Previsionary]

She-Hulk #38:

"Book's canceled." The fact that PAD worked that into the final page is a plus! The final issue was good. It wasn't perfect, but it was a much better read than the final issue of New Exiles...but that's not saying much. It's really nice to see how strong Shulk and Jazinda's friendship is and it's even better to see the book end on a positive note with the core team of the Lady Liberators (depending on how you see the Red Hulk version of the LL's). There's not much to say without spoiling the book, but it was a fun ride while it lasted. Maybe one day the book will be relaunched...for the 900th time. The only slight against it, I guess, would be that the art/colors could be a bit better, but it is still worthy of a 3 out of 5!
===============

Ultimate Wolverine vs. Hulk #3...yes, it does still exist!: CLICK

Deadpool: Suicide King: Click

War of the Kings #1: Click

[AfghanAnt]

I didn't mind New Avengers bad because I honestly like the way Luke and Jessica are written and I like the Hood. The Initiative was ok.

I did however find Dark Avengers and Mighty Avengers hard to enjoy especially since I love Ares and Marvel Boy...I mean Captain Marvel. I'm still confused why Noh-Varr would join this team. Ares makes sense but Noh-Varr should be either trying to discover his way (especially after the Captain Skrull-vell thing) instead he hangs out with twisted version of good characters. If that is the path they want to take Noh-Varr to it would be completely against who the character is. He isn't a villain despite his attempt at conquering New York, he's a confused, Kree youth who has no place to go but wants to live up he barely understands. Also does he have new powers now because he should be eating garbage and spitting mind-control toxins are people.

Also I demand a Thor versus Ares comic drawn by Oliver Coipel!

[Previsionary]

Wolverine Origins #33:

Spoiler

This issue focuses solely on tying up Wolverine's past with the guest stars of Nick Fury and the X-men. Nick Fury wants Wolverine to give him information on Daken and in return, Nick will give Wolverine information on Weapon X and Romulus. Meanwhile, Cyclops takes the "wolverine killing blade", whose name I forgot, plus a team of X-men (which included Armor, NC, Colossus, and Cannonball) to meet with and threaten Daken. Wolverine and Nick Fury come to the conclusion that Daken and/or Romulus want this to happen so that the blade can be stolen and merged with Daken's claws so that he can become the new ultimate killing weapon. End.

Um...no. This book works fine for what it is, but all the retconning of Wolverine's history to now tie it into the Hudsons (a secret revealed in this book is that Wolverine and his son are Hudsons and his mother was Elizabeth Hudson...so it ties him in more with Alpha Flight as well) and Romulus is complicated. Sometimes things work better with a simpler approach and I see this reveal being retconned like all the other Wolverine reveals/history flubs. My major problem rests solely on Daken though. Way and the rest of the writers that touch him aren't even trying to make him an interesting "NEW" character. For all purposes, he's just a younger, worse-looking, Wolverine...a mere clone with actual Logan DNA. He should have been the one to bite the dust instead of Sabretooth. I said it. Tis a 2...out of 5.

[marhawkman]

well, they said something about Daken wanting Adamantium and "sort of" getting it, but not quite the way he wanted. Maybe this means he won't actually get the sword?

[Talavar]

Eh, Sabretooth biting the dust was long overdue - but that doesn't mean that Daken shouldn't join him on the scrap heap.

[marhawkman]

It's too early to kill Daken. He needs to simmer for a while. Maybe get semi written off temporarily.

[Zippo]

I didn't mind New Avengers bad because I honestly like the way Luke and Jessica are written and I like the Hood. The Initiative was ok.

I did however find Dark Avengers and Mighty Avengers hard to enjoy especially since I love Ares and Marvel Boy...I mean Captain Marvel. I'm still confused why Noh-Varr would join this team. Ares makes sense but Noh-Varr should be either trying to discover his way (especially after the Captain Skrull-vell thing) instead he hangs out with twisted version of good characters. If that is the path they want to take Noh-Varr to it would be completely against who the character is. He isn't a villain despite his attempt at conquering New York, he's a confused, Kree youth who has no place to go but wants to live up he barely understands. Also does he have new powers now because he should be eating garbage and spitting mind-control toxins are people.

Also I demand a Thor versus Ares comic drawn by Oliver Coipel!

As far as Noh-Varr goes, I assume the name change is a result of 1) Osborn wanting to portray a more powerful and experienced image, and 2) because Mavel Boy (Bob Grayson) is currently active with the Agents of Atlas.
Also, if you've read Ms. Marvel, (i believe) she confronted Noh-Varr and questioned him about his adoption of the Captain Marvel mantle, as well as his involvement with Osborn. His somewhat cryptic responses seem to indicate that he knows all about Osborn and that he's not in it to be his puppet, so hopefully that aspect will be played up.

Also, I completely agree about Thor vs. Ares.

[Talavar]

Secret Warrriors 2

Spoiler

  I'd like to like this book - I like Nick Fury mainly, and the concept is a servicable one - but I think the result is pretty dumb.  Hydra apparently has secretly run Shield since its creation.  Um, okay - how?  Seriously, how does Hydra have the manpower and resources to pull this crap off?  All those defeats by various Marvel superheros over the years, that didn't leave a dent?  I mean, in the Marvel universe Hydra's got to be the equivalent of Al Qaeda, yet we're supposed to believe people are lining up to join.  That's dumb.  With the number of heroes in the Marvel universe, and the resources they can bring to bear, Hydra should be meagerly scraping by on the margins of existence, but instead Baron Stucker destroys an undersea city of 15 000 Hydra members because there were a couple of Skrull infiltrators, and doesn't even care - they're disposable.  Dumb. 

War of Kings 1

Spoiler

This was more enjoyable - the Starjammers flee the Shiar into Kree space (kind of spoiling the end of Kingbreaker) and attend the beginning of Crystal's wedding to Ronan the Accuser.  The Shiar use an infiltrator to take down the Kree force field, then attack with the Imperial Guard and their space fleet.  Lilandra gets captured and the Imperial Guard retreats, and the Inhumans are ticked off.  It's all setup for the rest of the mini-series, but my only major complaint is that Vulcan doesn't have a lot of motivation here.  Sure, he wants to kill Lilandra and the Starjammers, but attacking all of Kree space and using their most destructive weapons on Kree planets seems to be pretty generically eeeviiil.