The Marvel Thread

[BentonGrey]

That article makes my head hurt.  "Oh no!  These people are terrible because they aren't accepting Thor is a woman!  Clearly the problem is with them and their stupidity!' 

I'm being grossly reductivisit, but I'm getting rather sick of seeing this kind of foolishness.  Essentially, a comic store owner is closing his shop (an old and established one, adding to the sadness of the event) because of a declining customer base.  One of the reasons he points to for this is the disconnect between the popular movies and the current comics, causing customer confusion and scaring off new fans.  The author holds him up as a strawman and basically says, 'why don't you just give those customers classic books that match that continuity and get onboard with the current changes?!' 

The problem is, that's moronic because it doesn't take into account the business model of comic book stores and the nature of the industry.  People do buy TPBs at comic stores.  Occasionally, but most of those are sold online or in more accessible venues.  Comic stores, for the most part, survive with subscriptions and recurring customers.  If you sell one Jack Kirby Thor omnibus, that's great, money in your pocket, but it doesn't get that customer buying a monthly book.  And if they find nothing of what they loved in the films in the modern comics, they may never start buying a monthly book, and that one sale may be all you get.  This is, essentially, what I've been saying for a decade.  The industry is dying because people are too dense and too desperate to take advantage of the resources that they have.  They'd rather keep desperately throwing everything including the kitchen sink at their characters and hoping against hope that this latest 'bold new direction' will magically create the new readers they are eternally scaring off.

[kkhohoho]

That article makes my head hurt.  "Oh no!  These people are terrible because they aren't accepting Thor is a woman!  Clearly the problem is with them and their stupidity!' 

I'm being grossly reductivisit, but I'm getting rather sick of seeing this kind of foolishness.  Essentially, a comic store owner is closing his shop (an old and established one, adding to the sadness of the event) because of a declining customer base.  One of the reasons he points to for this is the disconnect between the popular movies and the current comics, causing customer confusion and scaring off new fans.  The author holds him up as a strawman and basically says, 'why don't you just give those customers classic books that match that continuity and get onboard with the current changes?!' 

The problem is, that's moronic because it doesn't take into account the business model of comic book stores and the nature of the industry.  People do buy TPBs at comic stores.  Occasionally, but most of those are sold online or in more accessible venues.  Comic stores, for the most part, survive with subscriptions and recurring customers.  If you sell one Jack Kirby Thor omnibus, that's great, money in your pocket, but it doesn't get that customer buying a monthly book.  And if they find nothing of what they loved in the films in the modern comics, they may never start buying a monthly book, and that one sale may be all you get.  This is, essentially, what I've been saying for a decade.  The industry is dying because people are too dense and too desperate to take advantage of the resources that they have.  They'd rather keep desperately throwing everything including the kitchen sink at their characters and hoping against hope that this latest 'bold new direction' will magically create the new readers they are eternally scaring off.

Honestly, I think the fact that the comics aren't all that much like the movies isn't the real problem, nor do I think we should just try and force the comics into being like them just up sales. (Which Marvel is doing anyway, and look how that's turned out.) Nor is that they keep on taking the characters in new directions. The problem is twofold. One is that nearly every single one of the 'new directions' they've taken is freaking moronic. Captain Nazi anyone? That said, that doesn't mean new directions are in and of themselves a bad thing, but they have to feel organic and come naturally from the characters and their situation. Trying to make a character something they aren't isn't the way to do it.

But another problem is that modern Big Two comics just aren't very welcoming to new readers. You could pop open any comic from Marvel these days and suddenly find oodles of continuity thrown at you, as well as find yourself thrown into a giant-arse eveny that you probably couldn't give two figs about even if you did already read the comics when all you want to do is just pick up one single comic -- not a franchise of comics or an event, but just one comic -- and enjoy it. And a lot of Marvel's comics these days don't really let you do that. That doesn't mean there aren't any, but it's usually stuff on the fringe. If your average newcomer just wants to sit down and enjoy the titles he knows from the movie -- Captain America, Iron Man, Avengers -- then tough luck.

[HarryTrotter]

See the previous page for my thoughts on Secret Empire and the Captain Nazi situation.
And what Benton said.
You cant make people read what you want them to read.And average muggle,and I have seen this happen,will look up,say,Hulk,see this isnt the guy from the movie,but Amadeus Cho on a quest to catch them all,and say : This is stupid.Comics are stupid.And probably be done with comics.
And even if there is a will,he/she will be welcomed by 4 or 5 similary named titles(looking at you Spiderman) and a confusing numbering system.Do I need ASM #3 from 2015 or 2017?

[detourne_me]

Holy crap. I actually used to shop at that place.... almost 15 years ago. I actually only bought a few trades there. There is a much better comic shop just around the corner though, called Heroes, and it is in much better condition with a better location. Nicer staff, too, actually.

I actually visited London for the first time in about 6 years this summer (used to live there) and honestly I was kind of shocked. The local economy downtown is not doing well. My wife was actually kind of scared. Blaming the decline of his shop on the big two publishers is entirely disingenuous.

EDIT: actually I was thinking of another shop downtown called LA Mood that was losing out to heroes. The Comic Book Collector is further East, and isnt in a nice area of town. They actually had a better collection of Indie comics, and Ive bought older graphic novels by Sienkiewicz and Peter Bagge there.

[HarryTrotter]

They have bad parts of town in Canada?Who knew? 
On the more serious topic,ofc Marvel isn't solely responsible here,but they are certainly not helping the stores with the current marketing/business model.
Also see the lenticular cover boycott of the past few weeks.

[detourne_me]

Heheh.  Just google 'East of Adelaide'. Sure, its not East Hastings, but it could get rough there.

[HarryTrotter]

Now that I got it out of my system...
Fact is,comics are confusing,and renumbering and events dont make it easier...But we discussed all this several times before,so no point in repeating it again.
Meanwhile,its easier to give your money to DC or IDW or someone fourth.

[kkhohoho]

Now that I got it out of my system...
Fact is,comics are confusing,and renumbering and events dont make it easier...But we discussed all this several times before,so no point in repeating it again.
Meanwhile,its easier to give you money to DC or IDW or someone fourth.

How is it any easier to give money to DC? Their continuity's more screwed up than a screwdriver.

[HarryTrotter]

Maybe,but that they are prducing better comics right now IMO.
And new readers would probably have easier time accepting that Superman is married then the fact Iron Man is Doctor Doom/a teenage girl.

[HarryTrotter]

http://www.screengeek.net/2017/09/02/marvel-comics-could-be-in-trouble/
Now,it could be fake,but a lot of it makes sense.
I will regret this,but what the hell happened with Punisher in Secret Empire?
Some of the predictions are: Waid off the brat pack and writing Captain America and Iron Man,at least for a while.Spencer on ASM and Slott on the FNSM.Ewing on Spirits of Vengence.Buccelato on Daredevil.
We already saw legacy renumberings to #150 and #218 so #600 and #700 are a given at this point.

[Deaths Jester]

Ok, cause Harry brought up Iron Man being Doom and a girl. I've no prob with those, except Doom should be doing it to get at FF, but the idea of Tony stuck as an AI is wrong. If you go back to the nineties, Tony was killed and uploaded his mind to a computer. He then had Stark Enterprises grow/build him a new body that his brain waves were uploaded into. So why can't he just grow a clone body again?!? It's not like he doesn't know how. Just seems weird...and a bit forgetful by the writers.

[HarryTrotter]

I was illustrating how it would look to a new reader.
Was that the time when he was a teenager?Crossing,was it?

[Deaths Jester]

It was before Crossing. It was back whe Rhodes was wandering around as Iron Man for a bit before switching to War Machine to distance himself from Tony. Right around the end of West Coast Avengers and the beginning of Force Works. If memory serves me right. I've got the comic around here somewhere...it's the 30th anniversary issue of Iron Man (March 1993, issue 290) that they show Tony rebuild himself...

And I know you were making a point on how it looks to new readers, I just saw the Iron Man reference and the thought hit me.

[kkhohoho]

just seems weird...and a bit forgetful by the writers.

The writers probably didn't read the comic in the question. It wouldn't be the first time. Back during Warren Ellis' time on the title, he said he hadn't read a single Iron Man comic aside from the first several, so it's not as if most writers actually take their time to read through every single issue a given series has. Granted, they should still have the general history down, but chances are, they're not always going to remember every little thing that happened. Sad but true.

[Deaths Jester]

True kkhohoho, but this isn't the only time Tony "rebuilt" himself. Even the recent Exterminis run Tony kinda "rebuilt" himself and of course during Secret War they showed that Rhodes had been "saved"/brought back by being made into a cyborg. True, none of those aren't complete body cloning/creation like the one I mentioned but still, you'd think a writer would remember one of these.

[Silver Shocker]

As a fellow Canadian myself, yes, there is some amount of "bad parts of town". The guy who runs my comic book store (well, used to, it's under new management now) told me the building literally across the street was a crack house. And yes, not all Canadians are nice.

There is a much better comic shop just around the corner though, called Heroes, and it is in much better condition with a better location. Nicer staff, too, actually.

Sounds like the comic book store that used to be in Niagara Falls that I would go to as a back-up if the local place didn't get my books. That place was cluttered and with an owner who was pushy and unpleasant. I always thought of that store closing as a clear cause-and-effect of that. Sadly, there was a much nicer store in NF that had a nice bookshelf for the trades, like you would see in a big chain bookstore like Chapters or Barnes and Noble, automatic sliding doors that made the same sound as the doors on the starship Enterprise, and even an arcade downstairs. And it shut down too, what a shame. If it was 10 minutes away like my local place I would be have been a regular there for sure.

Not one bit of that rumor you posted sounded unbelievable to me. Slott finally leaving Amazing would make me happy, it's been a longtime coming. A Whedon Astonishing X-Men type book where he can be as late as he wants sounds like a decent idea. Spencer on Amazing recapturing the Superior Foes magic sounds appealing, I'd pick that up. I'm not convinced any writer working today could do more lasting damage to Spidey than Slott has. Spencer very much included and with the possible exception of Chris Yost, who was actually pretty decent on Inferior Spider-Man Team Up. Though he was writing a tie-in/spin-off; I'd shutter to think what he'd do if he was in control. Not one bit about the X-Men and the Inhumans B.S. sounds surprising. No status update on Generation X? Lemme guess, cancelled already?  Oh well. If this report is true, not surprised to hear that Remender's X-Men stuff got kneecapped by Bendis O5 X-Men. You could kinda tell by the end.

I'll be sad if Waid is really leaving Champions. I complained about some of the preachy elements of the book but I do enjoy it. Mind you, I seem to against a lot of popular opinion on Spencer and Waid but I can live with that. I'm glad to see in recent months that I'm not the only one who thought Bendis was phoning it in on Guardians. Very happy to hear, that, if that report is true, Duggan's sticking around on Guardians. As I've said a few times before, I really like his Guardians run. Marvel seems to like Duggan so he's probably fine.

While I'm hear, I'd almost forgot: I'd been meaning to talk about the most recent issue of Peter David's Scarlet Spider. In fact, it ties in with the comment that modern Marvel comics are very poor at being accessible, which they are, but they're a lot better than they were about 10 years ago or so. At least we sometimes get editorial recap boxes now.

Spoiler

Rick Jones wife Marlo showed up. Gotta love Peter David. Apparently she's been doing a reality show called (sigh) "Keeping up with the Joneses". Also she's all aloof and off-putting in this, so basically Layla Miller. It was neat, but I knew right then and there I'd have to look up the character on Marvel wiki to find out if this was a new development that happened in a book I didn't read. And sure enough, there were some trippy supernatural developments in the Greg Pak Hulk run including Chaos War. That might be the cause for how she's acting, or it could be a new development, I don't know, and the book refuses to tell me because modern Marvel doesn't respect their audience enough for that. I should have said this about 10 years ago and I say this now: it is not Wikipedia or Marvel Wikia or any other unaffiliated site's job to get you up to speed so you can enjoy your ongoing story. That's the job of the writers and editors. Not every body wants to hit up the wiki. Not everyone has TIME to hit up the wiki (I usually don't). This whole "oh we're not going to explain important developments that are totally in play for the story you're currently reading" thing? Shouldn't even be an option.  The one exception being, like, a Deadpool comic where the continuity being confusing is the joke "Stewart or McAvoy? This timeline is so confusing."

On the topic of Hydra Cap (and by the way, guys, Spoilers):

Which actually means that,unsurprisingly,Marvel did the exact thing they promised they wouldn't do- restored the status quo.

In fairness, Marvel promised to do that months ago. When the FCBD comic came out, people were destroying it in protest because they didn't like the development in it, and Marvel promised them it'd be undone in hopes they would stop. And here's the thing: creators are allowed to change their minds. We all snarked about Joe Quesada saying a crossover between Ultimate and 616 would mean they've "ran out of ideas" but to quote Daniel Craig: "I'm not allowed to change my mind?" I want my writers to improve in areas where they doing poorly. I know it's usually not going to happen because most of them are too stubborn, but it'd be nice. As for the lying part, well, that's the rub. They don't want to say it's temporary even though it totally is. They probably should have said "wait and see". I've found that kind of response kind of obnoxious in the past, but it might not be as disrespectful as spouting an obvious lie.

A question for you all: Wolverine was brainwashed and a bad guy and starting things off by kiling off an obscure hero Marvel didn't care about keeping around (It was Hornet; his new successor and former teammates are about to show up in Scarlet Spider). That was about 10 years ago. Did people get this upset at that? I know it wasn't Captain America becoming a Nazi, but with that element removed, it was a very similar story premise.

So yeah,another pointless hero punchfest with no consequences at all.Other then the obligatory pointless deaths.No hard feelings as Iron Man would say.

So let's rap about that for a sec.

Spoiler

I'm not sure which deaths you're talking about, or if you're up to date on the events of the book. The major deaths in the main book were undone by Kobik. Black Widow and Rick Jones were clearly shown standing around while Kobik was doing her thing. Bucky was also revealed to be alive near the end of the story (unsurprisingly). Jack Flagg was revealed to be alive, albeit in a vegetative state, before SE even started. Unless I've forgotten someone, and not counting characters who died in tie-ins (Coulson), the only characters who died were minor villains (I can't remember, did Boomerang die?). And villains dying isn't as bad as lesser heroes dying. Villains come back. Often with no explanation or even acknowledging their death. Black Widow and Bucky were always going to come back. Tony and Banner will come back. Hank will come back, separated from Ultron one day. Rick Jones was probably going to come back. Red Ghost, who I personally don't care about, will likely come back. Are people upset Blackout died? Because he died in the classic storyline he was most remembered for "Avengers Under Seige".

But lets examine that Captain Nazi thing once again-for the people who hated the plot twist this is too little,too late.For the people who found it interesting,this is just a middle finger on the reset button.
So faced with Sophie's choice (how unfortunately appropriate),Marvel does the impossible and somehow gives up both its children.

I can't speak for everybody obviously, but I enjoyed the story and I was fine with the ending. Granted, it felt a little rushed and possibly rewritten to address backlash (and if that report you posted is accurate, it was) but other than that I had no significant complaints. I always thought of it as a temporary story/status quo. No different than the Inferior Spider-Man (though vastly better written, in my opinion and the opinion of many others.)

[HarryTrotter]

To be the devils advocate here(I seem to be doing that a lot),they were trying to do something new with a character whos thing of man-out-of-time wore itself out 30 years ago.And obviosly they were (again) aping Civil War,right down to Punisher working for CA.Rosenbergs run better be freaking great after this,btw.
But Im going off topic here...Civil War was stupid,but at least it had consequences that were adressed.And I did like Dark Reign and Siege.And there were a few good series in the aftermath.
Secret Empire doesnt bother.Will CA suffer now that his reputation is ruined in-universe?Ofc not.Again the whole thing ends with Iron Man more or less saying: Hey,no hard feelings.
Oh,and no news on Thunderbolts.Was it canceled?

Way back to the store closing- I cant say what all the reasons were;but the article really makes the guy sound like like a strawman,nothing unusual from companies extended PR arms,but the person who wrote it clearly doesn't get how that business functions.

On that crackhouse across the street...comics these days contain strong heroines. 

[Silver Shocker]

They certainly do. But then they always did. Chris Claremont did write some strong female characters.

On the topic of SE, something I should have said two weeks ago but I'll say now. Y'all should have waited for SE Omega, cuz there was one more issue!

And I personally dug it. The entire issue is literally just good guy Cap saying to the evil Hydra version "Hey you just peed in my cheereros. Now everyone thinks I'm some A-hole." And he's like "I did do that, didn't I. It's almost like.....I won. [Troll Face] "

Yeah, that's pretty much the entire issue. That and a vague comment I'm going to assume is a tease for the Marvel Legacy one-shot.

On a slightly unrelated note, this came up in a different thread but I actually had been meaning to bring this up so here it is in its entirely. The topic was comic stories that were responses to anti-heroes including Mark Waid's Kingdom Come:

[...] Mark Waid's recent issue of Avengers, a brilliant tie-in to Secret Empire where he rejected the whole damn story and every thing he hates about anti-heroes (and I really hope people realized that's what he was doing), which I'll get to in a second cuz I've need an excuse to talk about that one. There's always that added layer that is 100% intentional and 100% the point.

[Snip]

The thing about Mark Waid is he HATES anti-heroes. Hates hates hates. He hates a Superman who kills, he actually hates Deadpool, and he'd says he had no interest in writing him these days (ironic, considering he wrote one of the formative Deadpool minis that introduced the memorable Wade/Siryn ship, which I dubbed "WaidShipping". But the key is that it's a kind of morality he's against.

So guess what he did when he tasked with a Secret Empire tie-in in his Avengers book, starring the Evil Avengers (yes, another one). he spent the ENTIRE issue telling you how much they suck! No seriously, the whole damn issue. Doc Ock's an insufferable jacka$$ (no change there), Deadpool's incredibly annoying, not a big stretch there, though Waid does have him take a dig at Batman V. Superman, because of course. Taskmaster and Blank Ant are a bunch of opportunistic thugs, evil Scarlet Witch is a r@pist, and they're not fooling around on that one, they outright say it. Comic Marvel NEVER does that these days. And in the end Tasky and Black Ant find the alien horde they're sent to kill and it turns out the aliens are peaceful and they want to help humanity and Earth become a paradise and they're just like "Kay, but we're bad guys so we're going to kill you anyway" and they do it and they all just walk away like "Good job team, aren't we just a bunch of bada$$es". The final panel might as well have been Waid dropping the mic and being like "Yeah, that @#$% just happened." It was bloody brilliant! I'm not fronting, it was one of the most brilliant comics I've ever read. I seriously think Waid should get an Eisner for it (considering some of the utter garbage that got nominated for an Eisner). It really was that damn good.

[HarryTrotter]

I saw the spoilers for Legacy...My theory is that Alonso and the gang  are trying to do as much damage as they can before they are fired.

[GhostMachine]

Can you point me toward those spoilers? I want to see what kind of hot garbage it is.

[HarryTrotter]

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/09/26/fifteen-big-spoilers-marvel-legacy-1-order/
Next event will probably be "Revenge of the fallen".

[GhostMachine]

I....have no words....





That would be acceptable on this forum, that is.

[HarryTrotter]

It gets even more absurd.Next Avengers event is a redo of Avengers Dissasembled (because that was so great),co-written by Waid,Ewing and Zub.Also something about Earth being stolen.Because Slott isnt the only one who can ape Doctor Who.

[Silver Shocker]

Legacy was a weird one. I actually did expect it to better. The Caveman stuff was even more unappealing to me than I was expecting. It also spoiled two significant plot points (one of which was a major reveal) from the previous week's Guardians of the Galaxy, which I had only a few pages left to read when I read Legacy (which I made sure to read first BECAUSE I didn't want that spoiled) without any way of knowing Guardians had anything to do with it.

On other news, I read the two newest Scarlet Spider issues. I got my answers about the weird stuff going on in that previous issue I mentioned earlier...and the answer was even weirder than I could have possibly expected. Like, one of the weirdest things Peter David's ever written weird. Like, final issue of his Captain Marvel weird.

Spoiler

So Marlo Jones is not Marlo Jones but Lady Death pretending to be Marlo, and warns Ben Reilly that his soul is damaged because he's come back from the dead too many times. Even though every single one of those times was a genetic copy made in a lab and NOT the SAME PERSON, but whatever. And yes, I have pondered whether a clone has a soul of its own many times. Apparently I've gotten to see a fictional story explicitly address that, and it makes no sense even by fantasy/sci-fi/genre fiction standards. If two Ben Reillys, both clones, obviously, co-exist, side by side, do they each have a separate soul? Do they share the same soul, like Rampage in Beast Wars? It should be a moot point, since all Ben Reillys and Kanes are clones of Peter Parker, so any theoretical "one soul" should be Pete's. This concept is no bizarre and contradictory, I've surprised Slott didn't come up with it (it reminds me of the bizarre mechanics of the Doc Ock mindswap in Inferior, which WAS heavily criticized). I made a point to do the research, and it seems Jackal, in Clone Conspiracy, insisted they're not clones because they have memories. To quote Bob from Reboot "Copies can have memories." Unsurprisingly, noone in-story bought it. Strangely, PAD seems to have taken the concept and ran with it. It makes no fruity-toot-tooting sense. He didn't get out of the cockadoodie car!!! (and no, I'm not the first to use that reference when criticizing the plot of a Slott-era Spider-Man story)

So, ahem...

Lady Death posits the ultimate hanging sword of Damocles to Ben Reilly. He can't die. He has to make sure not to die, or his soul will never be able to repair itself. It's for keepies now, he can't cheat with the revolving door like comic book characters do. PAD found a interesting spin on a character who's defined by his ability to reappear long after his original death. So Ben pleads with Death to also bring Kaine back to life (cuz you knew there was no way he was going to stay dead) and the little sick girl Ben's been trying to treat this whole series, and she says she's going to make him choose one of them to come back. After some philosophical debate (a recurring motif in Peter David comics) Ben convinces her to bring both of them back, but at a price. She turns the previously Deadpool-esque looking Ben Reilly, into a handsome, unscarred Peter Parker looking Ben. I believe Tvtropes calls that "Cursed with Awesome".

The next issue, which I'd been greatly anticipating, starts off an arc that features the return of Hornet and the Slingers. Now, for those of you keeping score, Hornet was murdered off-screen by Wolverine in Mark Millar's Enemy of the State when he was brainwashed by Hydra. It's not just for Captain America! So here we have a new character taking over the Mantle. At the end of the issue, fellow Slingers member Ricochet (who was featured as a member of superhero support group Excalibur/The Loners, a group that, last I checked, Marvel hasn't acknowledged since the Christmas issue a good 10 years or so ago, other than a brief sequence involving Phil Ulrich in Slott's Spider-Man run) shows up and talks about Hornet to Ben...and refers to his deceased friend and former teammate by his first name in front of Ben. Now Peter David might make good on this in the next issue (I personally doubt it myself...) but in any case, I'm iffy on this otherwise minor detail for 2 reasons:

1. Is it policy for the authorities (who found Hornets body in the original story) to out his secret identity to the public in the Marvel Universe? While I'm sure this has been touched on, on a case-by-case basis (Civil War?), it seems like poor form in Hornet's case.

2. Assuming Hornet wasn't outed (and really, even if he wasn't, is every Marvel superhero going to remember the name of any other Marvel superhero whose real name is public knowledge? Especially one who died years ago?) would his friend really blurt out his name like that to someone he doesn't know? I don't doubt it's possible someone in an emotional moment might do such a thing (Richochet is shown smashing his flatscreen tv in a scene in The Loners during an emotional moment), it seems like, again, bad form for someone who's part of the superhero community.

Also, it's been announced that Scott Lang a.k.a Ant-Man will be in the Guardians of the Galaxy comic, as part of the team, and Beta Ray Bill will show up at some point (I'm hoping Dan Abnett and Andy Lannings "Annihilators" team will be involved, and considering Duggan's run, they probably will). And I know I say this after seemingly every issue, but Duggan's Guardians....still awesome!!! The latest issue is about the fate of long forgotten character Robbie Rider, brother of and fellow Nova Corp member of Richie Rider. Very satisfying to get a continuation of that plot point after all these years, and like so much of the run, the story just leaves you wanting more (had a decent artist this time too, that was nice).

[HarryTrotter]

Im sure its a typo,but the guys chasing after Runaways (which makes them a bit lamer then Team Rocket) were Excelsior.But Stan Lee had that phrase trademarked so - Loners.
Excalibur is the British team that's been neglected even worse.

[Silver Shocker]

You are correct. One thing that I've learned time and time again, is I make a LOT of typos.

[HarryTrotter]

Cable #150 Hey look,its Cable.And Shatterstar.And Longshot.And Doop.And Jon Malin.But at least he works a bit better here then for Thunderbolts.Btw,that was canceled,right?
Its pretty sad that fans care more about characters then Marvel does.

[kkhohoho]

Cable #150 Hey look,its Cable.And Shatterstar.And Longshot.And Doop.And Jon Malin.But at least he works a bit better here then for Thunderbolts.Btw,that was canceled,right?
Its pretty sad that fans care more about characters then Marvel does.

These days, Marvel cares more about MAKE IT THE MOVIE than anything else. Which leaves the writers free to pursue their own agendas rather than actually tell good stories. Which is how we got Secret Empire. Dagnabbit.

[HarryTrotter]

Way back in CW2,Alonso said they arent making a comic,but a movie in 15 years.Also,they apparently let Bendis run free with his pet projects,because they cant afford to lose him.How sad is that?
We all know they are sabotaging X-men and F4,but why Thunderbolts?They have the movie rights there.Unless somebody really hates them.And everything since 2012 onwards tells me there might be some truth there.

[Silver Shocker]

I still haven't heard anything about Thunderbolts, but I just found out Moonstone appears in the role of psychiatrist in the digital-first series "Thor Vs. Hulk: Champions of the Universe". You can even see her on the cover of #4.