Freedom Force - and what I always hoped we could be

[Vertex]

 Honestly I'd say there's a LOT of things out there most of us don't know we can do. Tons of things we  all could have taken advantage of. We've always had a GREAT community, but right at the start we did what most fan based communities do... We divided up as individuals or small groups and each went off on our own for projects. Tons of individual sites and such got started and things spread apart instead of together. Instead of 20 sites that were once up and running we're down to a handful now... Most died out because of either loss of interest or funds or because it all just became too much for one person to do for just a hobby.

  I've personally always had a dream for Freedom Force, and most would call me absolutely insane or naive that it could even be done. One site made that would be nothing but a list of characters that served as links. Each character's name would serve as a link to a page strictly about that character, that would comprise a set of links. Mesh, skin, hero file, fx ... everything a person would need to play that character ingame.  Honestly this couldn't be done by a single person, hell even a handful of people would have trouble managing it. However... if it were set up like say a Wiki encyclopedia, the entire community to contribute to the list, it could flourish and spark more interest and facilitate the creative growth instead of scattering it as has been done in the past. One stop shopping for all your FF needs. One place to look for everything instead of everything buried in tons of locations and people wondering where to look for info and help.
  Our community is what we make of it people, we can stay scattered or we can figure out how to combine our efforts to make what we all love greater than it has ever been. Right now we're a rag tag bunch of fans who haven't really done all we could have. I don't say this as though I've been any better about it. I love what Irrational produced and I wanna keep this community alive but.. the ways of the past haven't done us all that well. United we stand, divided we fall, all for one and one for all. is an old slogan but it's Oh so very true.

[crimsonquill]

I think that one-stop-website is what The Hitman and the FF Wikipedia crew has planned... and we are ALL trying to assemble enough material together for this to be possible. The problem has been that our community took some hits in membership from being knocked out by hackers (we still are getting old members wondering back now and then), from Irrational dropping it's own support after  was not as popular as the first and then suddenly closing it's community board, and like you said.. members with their own webpages being forced to close up shop because funding the web site after leaving the community was not possible.

Even if there are just under a hundred of us left... We are still here... and that says alot about the power of the game and how modding the game kept it breathing long after most others are memories. I still run into comic fans and writers/artists in the business who remember the impact that Freedom Force made in the gaming community but assumed the community died when the hype for FFvsT3R ended and no other expansions or versions came out.

Anyway, I ramble on and on... I'm behind whatever we as a community have planned to bring us back into the spotlight... I'm still working on VPMAX even since Sledgehammer has moved on and I will keep moving the game forward in my own small way.

- CQ

[AfghanAnt]

So like the Skindex or the Freedom Force Center? I miss those places so much. My very first skin (Jericho) was posted there. It is also where I IPS' original Blink.

[GogglesPizanno]

Ive had similar ideas for a while.
Though Im torn on the wiki concept... on one hand having people be able to add content as they see fit is a good thing that helps in workload -- and its good for things like tutorials. But on the downside, there is really no uniformity in formatting or data schema, so that should you want to take all that effort and information and reuse it elsewhere for other applications, or expanded uses, its not really in any kind of defined format which would require a lot of reentry.

In my mind the ideal way would be to come up with some kind of data schema for whatever it is you were trying to make (character bios, File links etc...) that could then be re-purposed, updated, and taken advantage of in various ways. Set it up in a Database and then all the information is nicely formatted, organized, sorted & searchable but in such a way as to be used for not just a single application

But that's just the web developer in me talking....

[Vertex]

well much more simple than those older sites and more fan "made" I mention the wiki for community involvement and to handle the enormous workload of such a project.

[detourne_me]

I understand what you mean Vertex.
I look at the Fallout3 Nexus or Marvel mods... or even dare i say it some of the nintendo sites i go to... In most of those instances files are hosted straight form those sites, or they are just mirror links to files hosted at other places.
our community has stradled this line between individual freedoms and community sharing for so long.  its really hard to take a stance (especially from somebodyt like me, with limited resources and very little custom content to his name)
I remember the old freedom force center too,  it was kickas.   was it hosted by one person?

geez, how many times has this been a debate?   in hero files in particular i know some people have heroes at 20K+ prestige points,  where as mine are typically within or just over the Freedom Force average of 10K.
to distribute a "definative" file we have to come to some kind of concensus and i'm not sure if that's possible....

So,  rethinking my post yet again while 'm writing it...   what's wrong with as you said,  a nicelist for each character, each meah/skin/fx download available.
These could be creator uploaded content at will.
i'm not too familiar with wiki sites, but woulsd the current FF wiki do as a good starting point?
Say we make sections for each publisher, pages for each character, and each creator that wants their stuff shared provide links on the character pages.
That is approaching a solution. 

Irrational themselves wanted to solve this by "bundling" mesh,skin,keyframe and hero file.... was this option ever fully introduced in Ctool2?

[GogglesPizanno]

I never thought of some definitive list at all.

I dont know what Vertex's thought was, but mine was always a character page. And on that page were links to all the skins, hero files and meshes for that character along with a bio and maybe some images for reference. If someone released a new skin for example , it would just get added to that list.

This also bridges my data idea, cause once you have all that data in a organized database (as opposed to a wiki) then it becomes simple for someone to find a skin they like and then do a search for all skins by that creator, or all characters that are linked to a single mesh etc... It expands the scope of what the site could do by a lot.

[BlueBard]

Freedom Reborn (this community) has been from the start about separate groups of people brought together out of a shared enjoyment of comics and gaming.  I think that's still true.  And I'm certain this is probably one of the last major hubs of Freedom Force enthusiasts, if not the last.  But I don't think this community as a whole has centered on FF for quite a while.  FF brought us here, but we bonded in General Discussion.

Personally, I don't have either version of FF installed anymore and haven't played them in a long time.  I think I still have some of the meshes and skins and maybe some of the mods, but not what I used to have.  I tried to get into modding, but the learning curve was too steep for the time I was able to devote to it.  Doesn't stop me from coming back here, though.  I like a lot of the folks here, I appreciate the collective creative talent, and I appreciate the sense of humor shared by many here.  I've never met a more cheerfully eccentric, creative, and dynamic batch of characters in my whole life and I hope FR never goes away.

[Spring Heeled Jack]

I'm still very interested in the community as a place where hobbyists can get together to share their talents and interests. That's what originally drew me to the community nearly SEVEN years ago, and that's why I keep bouncing back. I don't skin anymore, and I haven't played either game in over four years, but I'm still invested in it.

So basically I'm saying I'm still here, and if anyone needs help crafting a new site or fleshing out new ideas of any sort, count me in. I'm good for a flimsy premise or two, and The Valiant is still go--with at least one member, that is.

[Figure Fan]

..So basically I'm saying I'm still here, and if anyone needs help crafting a new site or fleshing out new ideas of any sort, count me in. I'm good for a flimsy premise or two, and The Valiant is still go--with at least one member, that is.

His websites rock, pretty much. Simple, yet effective. Or is it affective? Whatever..

You know, Spring, wouldn't it be cool to set up a little museum for The Valiant online? I'd consider myself a member still, too.

[Gremlin]

I dont know what Vertex's thought was, but mine was always a character page. And on that page were links to all the skins, hero files and meshes for that character along with a bio and maybe some images for reference. If someone released a new skin for example , it would just get added to that list.

This would be freaking amazing. It'd be really cool to see, say, all the Superman skins people have done, being able to look at particular skinners' styles and to even compare a skinner's earlier with their later work. I'd love this.

[Vertex]

I never thought of some definitive list at all.

I dont know what Vertex's thought was, but mine was always a character page. And on that page were links to all the skins, hero files and meshes for that character along with a bio and maybe some images for reference. If someone released a new skin for example , it would just get added to that list.

This also bridges my data idea, cause once you have all that data in a organized database (as opposed to a wiki) then it becomes simple for someone to find a skin they like and then do a search for all skins by that creator, or all characters that are linked to a single mesh etc... It expands the scope of what the site could do by a lot.

That's sorta exactly what I am/was talking about.. except I had thought of the whole bio part but yeah that's the idea. as far as the data idea.. seems more complicated for everyone to contribute and then more work on 1 person or more but hey whatever gets it done.

[Spring Heeled Jack]

His websites rock, pretty much. Simple, yet effective. Or is it affective? Whatever..

You know, Spring, wouldn't it be cool to set up a little museum for The Valiant online? I'd consider myself a member still, too.

Thanks for the words of support. My sites are humble, but they work!

Perhaps we should do something. There's two of us. There may be more.

[tommyboy]

so, are we doing this?
I would suggest a modest start, maybe take two characters beginning with A, one DC one Marvel, and see if we can list all content about both.
Once we have a reasonable list, someone can mock up a webpage or two so people can see it "in action".
Lets start "small":

A is for Atom, the
Mesh and skin
The Atom
mesh by Renegade, skin by Lightning Man

Mesh and skin
Atom_TJ
mesh by TexasJack, Skin by C6


and
A is for Antman, the

Meshes and skins by tommyboy
Ant_man_tiny_tvlite, Ant_man_tvlite, Antman3_tf, Antman1_tf all at:
http://tommyboymeshes.freedomforceforever.com/marvel%20meshes%20A.html

Mesh
Antman69
by bobby69 (Vertex)

Mesh
Antman_TJ
by TexasJack

Skin
Antman_ink by Ink (uses antman69 mesh by Bobby69(Vertex))

Skin
Ant_man by Friction

Skin
Antman by Ink (uses The Ant mesh by Irrational)

Skin
Antman70s helmet by JKCarrier (uses Antman mesh by Antman)

If anyone else knows of more, or links to the above, please post.
And we're off!

[Vertex]

actually i had hesitated to start an actual demo of it because I hear the FR wiki might be moving so didn't want it to start and then be wasted.

[tommyboy]

actually i had hesitated to start an actual demo of it because I hear the FR wiki might be moving so didn't want it to start and then be wasted.

Ahh, my ...if not "bad", at least "a bit over-eager".
I just think at the moment, a project could help remind us all that we have more in common than in difference. You know, all pull together, etc etc.
But I see the sense of waiting for the Wiki to settle down too..

[Vertex]

actually i had hesitated to start an actual demo of it because I hear the FR wiki might be moving so didn't want it to start and then be wasted.

Ahh, my ...if not "bad", at least "a bit over-eager".
I just think at the moment, a project could help remind us all that we have more in common than in difference. You know, all pull together, etc etc.
But I see the sense of waiting for the Wiki to settle down too..

actually you made my heart skip a beat with a joygasm when I saw the idea actuallized.

[Podmark]

Well I think this is a great idea. I'd love to help.

So when we Ant-Man are we counting just Pym, or we talking Lang and O'Grady as well?
Also that's a good question when we do a character like Hank Pym do we do it in one one shot (all of Ant-Man, Giant-Man, Goliath, Yellowjacket, Dr. Pym, Wasp) or by code name maybe with links to his other identities?

[laughing paradox]

I'm curious what would be done about characters that we know were done but aren't hosted at a site.

I can't think of any examples offhand, but I know there are plenty of instances like this. Wait, I don't think Thundra by Fusion is hosted.. so let's say that, for example.

[tommyboy]

Well I think this is a great idea. I'd love to help.

So when we Ant-Man are we counting just Pym, or we talking Lang and O'Grady as well?
Also that's a good question when we do a character like Hank Pym do we do it in one one shot (all of Ant-Man, Giant-Man, Goliath, Yellowjacket, Dr. Pym, Wasp) or by code name maybe with links to his other identities?

I'd think for Ant Man we could use the convention "Ant-Man 1 (Hank Pym), Ant Man 2 (Scott Lang), Ant-Man 3 (Eric O'Grady)" To differentiate them (even though I didn't do this above, and they are all in there). Under Pym's ant man entry we could have "see also Giant-Man, Goliath, YellowJacket, Dr.Pym, The Wasp", with hyperlinks to the appropriate page embedded in those words.

[tommyboy]

I'm curious what would be done about characters that we know were done but aren't hosted at a site.

I can't think of any examples offhand, but I know there are plenty of instances like this. Wait, I don't think Thundra by Fusion is hosted.. so let's say that, for example.

We'd either try to get it hosted, if possible, or have a generic "Not Currently Hosted, available by request from the Community at large", and then point at Prev and USAgent n'est pas?

[The Phantom Eyebrow]

If I might chip in at the (proverbial) 11-th hour but this is a brilliant idea; and badly wanted it is too!  I give this idea my highest rating: Two Brows Aloft!

[Johnny Patches]

im a long time member short time in posting messages..
quick question does this acount for skopes also?
just asking please dont hate 

[Podmark]

im a long time member short time in posting messages..
quick question does this acount for skopes also?
just asking please dont hate 

If we're going to include meshes than I would think skopes (and hexes) should be included too where appropriate. The one restriction I'd place would be that it was released.

[tommyboy]

im a long time member short time in posting messages..
quick question does this acount for skopes also?
just asking please dont hate 

I HATE YOU! I HATE YOU!"!!!!1111
Just kidding.
Vertex's original post I believe mentioned "Mesh, skin, hero file, fx ... everything a person would need to play that character ingame". I interpret this to include hexxes, 'skopes, voicepacks and anything else one might use in the game to portray a character. Key word; "Everything".
So, presuming to answer as if I were the final judge;
Yes. Yes it would.

EDIT: damn you Podmark! You've ninja'd me for the last time!
Ahem..yes, what he said about released stuff too, for my part.

[Vertex]

Sorry if there is any confusion at all...

My suggestion is intended to include ALL material for any character. This would include anything ever made just for that character. Skopes,fx,hero file, skins, meshes, and anything that i can't think of at the moment. The premise is you look for the character.. you find him/her and then that gives you everything there is out there to make that character complete for you. It should include all art by everyone, there should be no bias it should be a matter of the person wanting that character in their game.. to be able to easily find everything.


EDIT: scooped by Tommy!!! I'm coming to get you.. you.. you.. scooper! 

[daglob]

I had started a kind of feasability study on a list of all the skins. The general concensus was that a list was possible, but would require a lot of work. Listing ALL the skins might not be feasable, but a useful list might actually be possible.

This would eliminate the need for a skin list. It would be so much better.

[tommyboy]

I had started a kind of feasability study on a list of all the skins. The general concensus was that a list was possible, but would require a lot of work. Listing ALL the skins might not be feasable, but a useful list might actually be possible.

This would eliminate the need for a skin list. It would be so much better.

It would be a Thing Of Glory, were it to come to pass.
So, is it done yet?


...how about now?

[Gremlin]

Well I think this is a great idea. I'd love to help.

So when we Ant-Man are we counting just Pym, or we talking Lang and O'Grady as well?
Also that's a good question when we do a character like Hank Pym do we do it in one one shot (all of Ant-Man, Giant-Man, Goliath, Yellowjacket, Dr. Pym, Wasp) or by code name maybe with links to his other identities?

I'd think for Ant Man we could use the convention "Ant-Man 1 (Hank Pym), Ant Man 2 (Scott Lang), Ant-Man 3 (Eric O'Grady)" To differentiate them (even though I didn't do this above, and they are all in there). Under Pym's ant man entry we could have "see also Giant-Man, Goliath, YellowJacket, Dr.Pym, The Wasp", with hyperlinks to the appropriate page embedded in those words.

Actually, I think it would be more efficient to simply have one "Ant-Man" page in three sections. It'd make navigation easier, I think. The only time it'd be necessary to differentiate would be if there were two completlely characters with one name--say, Captain Marvel.

[detourne_me]

Y'know what?   Why don't we try and make a section on Wikipedia itself?
It could be right down at the bottom near External links.
That way all of the character information, and hyperlinks to related characters are already there.
Sure it's kind of lazy, but it's also the reason why wikipedia exists, an ever-expansive compendium of information about related subjects.

Now what I think what would need to be done here is...
We create a standard template for displaying the links to the content
We attach maybe a smaller FFVTTR logo or FF logo with it
We create a thread for discussing this project further.

What do you think?