Forum Situation: Update

Figure Fan · March 09, 2009, 12:25:14 AM

Ok, so, what on earth did I miss?? I'm gathering that IPS left the community, complained that his work was still being shown here, then went even further to complain about Marvel and DC owned property being shown here? When did all of this happen? I thought things were fine..?

*really confused*

Jakew · March 09, 2009, 12:29:16 AM

http://freedomreborn.net/forums/index.php?topic=49696.0

stumpy · March 09, 2009, 12:34:05 AM

Take a peak at the "The Removal..." thread. The discussion there covered most of the basics (at least in as much detail as needs to be aired here). Just keep in mind that some of the posts have a bit of a fatalistic take on things, but I don't think FR was ever quite on the brink of disappearing permanently and the final word on the FF forums isn't written yet, either.

D'oh! Ninja'd.

Figure Fan · March 09, 2009, 01:16:45 AM

Oh, hm. I thought I read that thread, but apparently I read the thread that had that one quoted in the first post.

Anyway, I'm shocked that he was banned, which is news to me. I was convinced that the mod issue from last month had died down.

Such a pity. I can't believe he's gone, and I can't believe that he tried to get us in trouble.

cmdrkoenig67 · March 09, 2009, 02:25:46 AM

Believe it, FF...He did it and now claims he's sorry, yet still states this forum is run by fascists.

Dana

BentonGrey · March 09, 2009, 02:52:28 AM

No, he claim's he's sorry people he "cared" about got hurt, not sorry he actually did it. He made that distinction.

Zapow · March 09, 2009, 03:22:17 AM

Quote from: Figure Fan on March 09, 2009, 12:25:14 AM
Ok, so, what on earth did I miss?? I'm gathering that IPS left the community, complained that his work was still being shown here, then went even further to complain about Marvel and DC owned property being shown here? When did all of this happen? I thought things were fine..?

*really confused*

No, that's not right. ips was banned because of his behavior and then he threatened to be petty and vindictive. He never asked for his posts to be removed, which he easily could have and no one would had a problem doing, but instead filed a complaint in hopes of getting FR shut down to hurt the Titans for banning him. ips threw a tantrum like the child he is. That's the reality of the situation.

The ips version is that the Titans, mods, and admins have so little going on in their lives that they relish any opportunity to abuse the massive power of running a message board dedicated to modding a computer game based on superheroes. That despite being married with a kid, working a full time job, making comics on the side, running a non-profit charity, not even having Freedom Force on my computer or posting at FR anymore that I am obsessed with carrying out my fascist dreams on truly just and noble souls like ips in hopes I'll crush their amazing spirits. Surely years long grudges must be at play. That can be the only explanation. It must be that Randy, Mike and I somehow strong-armed all the Titans into banning the innocent ips for no reason at all. There is no way ips, who has always displayed his totally selfless attitude toward the community could ever be to blame for what transpired.

BentonGrey · March 09, 2009, 03:30:32 AM

Zap stop, just stop.......that is totally uncalled for.....'cause you're going to kill me I'm laughing so hard.

Zapow · March 09, 2009, 03:38:23 AM

I'm sorry. His absurd claims just needed to be put into perspective.

BentonGrey · March 09, 2009, 03:40:25 AM

Hehe, this part still has me chuckling, "truly just and noble souls like ips."

Well, I'm not helping things, so I'm going to shut up now.

DrMike2000 · March 09, 2009, 03:58:08 AM

Wow! Turn your back for a minute...

Glad to see the forum has survived this ridiculous assault. (From a guy who did copyrighted skins!!! Jeez!) My thanks to Glitch Girl and everyone else who's had to dealt with this emergency.

We will keep on trucking, I hope. I do have one question.
In the current state of the forums, what is the most apropriate place to post news of original content being produced for the game? Here in General?

BentonGrey · March 09, 2009, 04:00:41 AM

Dr. Mike...don't toy with me...if that means what I think it means.....

Zapow · March 09, 2009, 04:05:00 AM

Quote from: DrMike2000 on March 09, 2009, 03:58:08 AM
Wow! Turn your back for a minute...

Glad to see the forum has survived this ridiculous assault. (From a guy who did copyrighted skins!!! Jeez!) My thanks to Glitch Girl and everyone else who's had to dealt with this emergency.

We will keep on trucking, I hope. I do have one question.
In the current state of the forums, what is the most apropriate place to post news of original content being produced for the game? Here in General?

Doc, give us a few days. They'll be a better place to post.

DrMike2000 · March 09, 2009, 04:07:02 AM

No worries, Zap. I appreciate all the work you guys are doing here, and not trying to hurry anyone along. Its just the first question that sprang to my mind.

BentonGrey · March 09, 2009, 04:08:12 AM

Okay......restraining rampant imagination.....

TaskMasterX · March 09, 2009, 04:10:20 AM

That's nice to hear. I can't wait for things to get back to normal. For me, FR wouldn't be the same without a place to come and talk about FF

Thanks to all the Admins and Titans.

Sevenforce · March 09, 2009, 09:08:53 AM

I can't believe that this has all come about... It's just petty, vindictive, and mean to do something like this to a community that has supported and, in a way, been a second home to ips, providing feedback and criticism as well as friendship. But hey, it's "on the internet" so it doesn't affect anyone, right?

My appreciation to the Titans, Mods, and Admins who, even if we do disagree with from time to time on individual issues, have the best intentions for the community as a whole, and work tirelessly and effortlessly towards that goal, even with such time-destroyers as family, full time jobs, and real life issues in the background. Probably been heard countless times over the last few days, but:

Thank you.

Thank you for the work that you do, even if we don't always appreciate it. Thank you for being level headed, even in the face of countless accusations of fascism, an internet dictatorship and not caring. Because you do. Care. And that means more to me, personally, than any of the people who try to bring down such tightly-knit communities simply because they, themselves have been slighted, outed, and outcast by that community.

bat1987 · March 09, 2009, 12:36:17 PM

Wow, I`ve been away for a week and it seems that I missed a lot.
Dunno the reason behind this, I thought that compromise was reached, but it seems that it wasnt enough. I find this behaviour immature and uncalled for.

Thanks to all the people that struggle to keep this place running!

deano_ue · March 09, 2009, 01:05:06 PM

right i know i'm gonna be made the bad guy with this post, but honestly i feel the one thing we can take from this is that FR could do with a few new more currently active mods.

not a bash on the current group but honestly how many still post or play the game, with the whole fighting that started the recent trouble could have been nipped in the bud if there was a few more active one

tommyboy · March 09, 2009, 01:33:23 PM

Quote from: the_ultimate_evil on March 09, 2009, 01:05:06 PM
right i know i'm gonna be made the bad guy with this post, but honestly i feel the one thing we can take from this is that FR could do with a few new more currently active mods.

not a bash on the current group but honestly how many still post or play the game, with the whole fighting that started the recent trouble could have been nipped in the bud if there was a few more active one

I respectfully disagree.
There were efforts to moderate things, and I was contacted by moderators who were getting all sides of the story, and we were told publicly to rein it in.
It's very hard to judge when an argument, discussion or dispute is becoming "too much".
With hindsight you can talk of nipping it in the bud, but where is that bud? IPS's first objection to Benton's mod? The first replies against and for him? The second or third thread on it? The Poll I made?
At what point does a disagreement or discussion need to be censored?
It's a fine line on a slippery slope.
It may seem easy to say "the first insult gets the thread locked", but there are many ways to skin that particular cat, and some of us are quite adept at insulting "below the radar", so that's harder to apply than it seems.
No, the responsibility lies as much with the posters as the Mods, maybe more so. That's why I do personally feel responsibility for this whole mess, because I should have acted better, not had a Mod tell me how to act. If any lesson needs to be learned, it's that one, for me.

herodad1 · March 09, 2009, 01:50:40 PM

i agree with tommy in that it falls on us as adults to act like responsible adults.everyone knows right from wrong,when enoughs enough, and when to just walk away.i see things like this at work all the time.people know the rules and policies and they still do what they know they shouldnt do.

Zapow · March 09, 2009, 02:12:48 PM

Quote from: the_ultimate_evil on March 09, 2009, 01:05:06 PM
right i know i'm gonna be made the bad guy with this post, but honestly i feel the one thing we can take from this is that FR could do with a few new more currently active mods.

not a bash on the current group but honestly how many still post or play the game, with the whole fighting that started the recent trouble could have been nipped in the bud if there was a few more active one.

I don't post or play the game yet I'm still here along with a lot of the other mods on a daily basis making sure things are running properly.

Do you know what I find funny about this post? We are endlessly accused of being heavy handed and that we overly mod FR. That we don't let posters moderate themselves. Yet, as you can see, this is a case where we let a discussion continue and watched it closely so as not to stifle dialog.

As a moderation team we didn't have a problem with what ips had to say. He was expressing an opinion regardless of whether we agreed with it or not. We did have a problem with how he said it and what it did to the community.

When I'm getting messages like these for posters it became clear we needed to take some action regarding ips.

QuoteFirst an apology -- This rant is directed at all admins, you just happened to be the first I stumbled across.

I''ve been away from the FF community for a while, and just dropped by yesterday to see what was up. I was saddened by what I found. On the FF side of the board the old, happy community I remembered had vanished and been replaced by an atmosphere of hostility and suspicion.

If I was still a regular participant in the community this is the bit where I would try to be all balanced and even-handed and say "On the one hand this, but on the other hand that."

But now that I'm just watching on the sidelines I'll come out and say it plain: ips is behaving like an arse. He seems to think that someone died and left him in charge, so he's made up a bunch of rules about how other people should act on FR and is now engaging in his own little witch hunt with poor Benton as his target.

All he's managed to achieve, apart from gratifying his own endless appetite for drama, is to drive people away from a community that used to pride itself on being welcoming and open.

And, strangely, the admins have let this happen. One thing I always admired about FR was that it was a very well-run board, where the admins did a fine job of preventing flame wars. But this fire has been allowed to continue to burn.

Here's how I see it: either FR has a rule against something like Benton's mod or it doesn't. If it does, the admins need to state that rule clearly (preferably before someone spends years working on a mod.) If there is no such rule, then the admins need to prevent random posters from endlessly harassing modders working in good faith.

In other words, it's time for the admins to awake from their slumbers and forcefully remind ips that he is not, in fact, in charge of setting the board's policies. I'd say an appropriate action is that he refrain from commenting on mods (as opposed to keyframes, skins, etc.) in general for six weeks or so, or risk the ban-hammer.

Again, apologies for hitting you with this rant. And now I'll vanish again for a while. I hope the next time I return to FR it is a happier place.

Quotei never sent you a message befor..
can you please remove me from the community just these last few weeks its really been to dramatic here,
had my fun
time to move on with really life events

lugaru · March 09, 2009, 02:14:07 PM

figured as much... I can be a pesimist but I've seen this site in trouble so many times that I know it is not going anywhere. If anything the boards where highly active, which is nice.

cmdrkoenig67 · March 09, 2009, 02:17:20 PM

Quote from: tommyboy on March 09, 2009, 01:33:23 PM
Quote from: the_ultimate_evil on March 09, 2009, 01:05:06 PM
right i know i'm gonna be made the bad guy with this post, but honestly i feel the one thing we can take from this is that FR could do with a few new more currently active mods.

not a bash on the current group but honestly how many still post or play the game, with the whole fighting that started the recent trouble could have been nipped in the bud if there was a few more active one

I respectfully disagree.
There were efforts to moderate things, and I was contacted by moderators who were getting all sides of the story, and we were told publicly to rein it in.
It's very hard to judge when an argument, discussion or dispute is becoming "too much".
With hindsight you can talk of nipping it in the bud, but where is that bud? IPS's first objection to Benton's mod? The first replies against and for him? The second or third thread on it? The Poll I made?
At what point does a disagreement or discussion need to be censored?
It's a fine line on a slippery slope.
It may seem easy to say "the first insult gets the thread locked", but there are many ways to skin that particular cat, and some of us are quite adept at insulting "below the radar", so that's harder to apply than it seems.
No, the responsibility lies as much with the posters as the Mods, maybe more so. That's why I do personally feel responsibility for this whole mess, because I should have acted better, not had a Mod tell me how to act. If any lesson needs to be learned, it's that one, for me.

Tom, Please stop...I don't feel this situation was your fault. Do not blame yourself for the actions of another, they made their own decisions. I agree that we all need to be mature and stop acting like jerks to each other, but you're not the only one and you're not solely responsible either.

Dana

docdelorean88 · March 09, 2009, 03:51:48 PM

Here HERE! I understand where your senses of responsibility are conjuring up from nad understand them because i have been put into your situation many times before. Not necessarily on here, but, in RL as well. The simple fact i had to learn is people will do what they want to do! If man wants money, it is his choice how to find it. Instead of working for it at a job, he robs a bank. Even if you were one factor in this equation, It was up to IPS to solve it in a rational manner. And beleive me when i say this was NOT a rational manner.

Keep ya chin up tommy, you have an oppinion just as IPS did. You are however, are mature enough not to go have a hissy fit when things don't go your way!

And to the community Admins to casual followers, let us not dwell on IPS because if i have ever learned one thing it is that KARMAs a

Spoiler

HOLD UP! No fowl language here, no sir! (You can finish the last word of that phrase if you like.

) It is already taking effect. If IPS is casually looking over our responses, how do you think it would feel to be hated by an entire community of anonomis people... once again Karmas a

(insert previous fill-in-the-blank here)

deano_ue · March 09, 2009, 04:08:18 PM

Quote from: Zapow on March 09, 2009, 02:12:48 PM
Quote from: the_ultimate_evil on March 09, 2009, 01:05:06 PM
right i know i'm gonna be made the bad guy with this post, but honestly i feel the one thing we can take from this is that FR could do with a few new more currently active mods.

not a bash on the current group but honestly how many still post or play the game, with the whole fighting that started the recent trouble could have been nipped in the bud if there was a few more active one.

I don't post or play the game yet I'm still here along with a lot of the other mods on a daily basis making sure things are running properly.

Do you know what I find funny about this post? We are endlessly accused of being heavy handed and that we overly mod FR. That we don't let posters moderate themselves. Yet, as you can see, this is a case where we let a discussion continue and watched it closely so as not to stifle dialog.

As a moderation team we didn't have a problem with what ips had to say. He was expressing an opinion regardless of whether we agreed with it or not. We did have a problem with how he said it and what it did to the community.

When I'm getting messages like these for posters it became clear we needed to take some action regarding ips.

ok maybe like i said i was over stepping my boundary's into topics i shouldn't be. i was only speaking from personal experience on other art based board where i have seen situations like this happen.

i wasn't saying the mods/admins/titans were not doing there job far from it, i was just throwing out ideas that could be used or dismissed. maybe i should have explained myself better

my idea which i have seen work on other boards would be that select indivuals are given mod ability's over select forums ie one for skins one for meshs. to keep the forums tidy and organised thus keeping the global mods/admins/titans the abilty to be free to do more important board related stuff rather than have to deal with little things like posts in the wrong section or doubles posts etc

but like i said i'm just a normal member here so maybe i'm sticking my nose into things i don't have a place in

77 · March 09, 2009, 06:20:09 PM

Quote from: cmdrkoenig67 on March 09, 2009, 02:17:20 PM

Tom, Please stop...I don't feel this situation was your fault. Do not blame yourself for the actions of another, they made their own decisions. I agree that we all need to be mature and stop acting like jerks to each other, but you're not the only one and you're not solely responsible either.

Dana

You are correct it wasn't his fault. IT WAS MINE MUHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Panther_Gunn · March 09, 2009, 06:35:30 PM

Quote from: the_ultimate_evil on March 09, 2009, 04:08:18 PMmy idea which i have seen work on other boards would be that select indivuals are given mod ability's over select forums ie one for skins one for meshs. to keep the forums tidy and organised thus keeping the global mods/admins/titans the abilty to be free to do more important board related stuff rather than have to deal with little things like posts in the wrong section or doubles posts etc

If I remember correctly, that is the way it used to be, when we were way more active, and just about all of the mods stopped by every day or so (or even more frequently). Attrition has done a number on us, but I think we've been doing a good job staying on top of things, since this place is (to my only Titan eyes) is relatively easy to manage on a daily basis; the incident that led to all this was definitely an aberration.

It may be time to cycle in some new Mods (not my decision to make, but I do get a vote on it), but not because we're falling apart. I think the Titans do a good job of alerting the Mods/Admins to anything that might have slipped through, or not been immediately noticed; and there's still enough of us active that we see most things.

stumpy · March 09, 2009, 06:56:47 PM

Even though a lot has happened here, I'm not sure any big changes are called for. It may be important to keep a couple things in mind. 1) With a system that generally works, making changes right after an incident like this is often unwise because the tendency is to overcompensate and also to come up with approaches that focus on the issue central to the incident but which may not function that well in general. And 2), we don't want to get distracted fixing a problem that, for the most part, really doesn't exist. I mean, this has happened once in all the time I have been here, so keeping it in perspective is important.

Meanwhile, compared to any moderated site I visit regularly, we have a pretty healthy system. Obviously, there are cases when a thread goes too far before a mod sees it, but the reporting feature works to allow any member to alert us about posts that cross the line. With all that, some things will still slip past, but there is no perfect system. As mentioned before, the thread that got so heated last month was a tough one to moderate because we don't want to blunt discussion on issues that interest members and, with that in mind, it is difficult to determine when things have gone too far.

BTW, as sort of a general "silver lining" note, as much frustration as everyone has felt during this incident, I must say that I have been heartened by the way this community has pulled together, in support for one another, and in appreciations for the titans' and admins' work to keep us up and running. This is a great bunch of people and I am proud to be part of it.

The Phantom Eyebrow · March 09, 2009, 07:15:04 PM

Quote from: stumpy on March 09, 2009, 06:56:47 PM
BTW, as sort of a general "silver lining" note, as much frustration as everyone has felt during this incident, I must say that I have been heartened by the way this community has pulled together, in support for one another, and in appreciations for the titans' and admins' work to keep us up and running. This is a great bunch of people and I am proud to be part of it.

Nicely put Stumps (may I call you Stumps?). In fact I agree whole-heartedly with all you've said just there, but it was the last bit that warmed the cockles of me heart...

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Forum Situation: Update