The skin off.

[deano_ue]

An idea i have been thinking about, with people throwing ideas and interests in to the old skinning challenges again, what about an alternative idea to this.

Basically a tournament people ever and are split into pairs, each would skin the same character and then each would be put before a group of judges or a poll and the winner moves on to the next round to get a new brief and so on and so on

but evil you handsome rugged man you wont people just vote for there favorite skinners you may ask, and i will reply get the hell outta my house

but i've thought about this, each participant would complete there skin and then send it's zip to a unbais member who will post the images
eg tom vs AA would both send there skins to myself and i would post a comparison image with no names and such

so who's up for it, and yes it could get nasty and ugly is certain people don't win or arn't happy with the results, but we are all mature and responsible enough to deal with that

so who's up for it or are ya all a bunch of sissy's

[Figure Fan]

I would LOVE to be a judge, and this idea does seem kind of fun, and competitive.

[billdamn22]

I like this. It scares the crap outta me, but I like it. I'm in if you ever get it going.

[The Hitman]

I would be up for losing a contest like this.

[Tomato]

Grah! Can't trust anyone these days...

I'm in as whatever, depending upon what time frame we're looking at... should be good the next month or so though, got my last 3 finals this week and I've already finished my work on one.

[AfghanAnt]

So the idea is to have multiple people skin the same character to see which one is the "best"?

[Aly Cat]

It's an interesting idea, but hardly fair. There are many diff levels of skinning expertise possessed by the various skinners in the community; they all create within their own abilities and to put 1 against another is somewhat intimidating. I think Billdamn said it best. There are a number of skinners that are considered the best here, C6 for example, (tho' I don't know if he skins still); who would want to go up against him? There is also the fact that it may cause some issues if the person who feels they SHOULD win, doesn't. I'm just voicing my opinion on this & these may not be issues that can't be overcome, but just something to consider.

[laughing paradox]

I would have to echo Aly Cat's sentiment.

It's evident that a handful of people would ultimately win a competition like this, which would make me lose any motivation in actually participating. If the purpose of the competition is for 'hardcore' constructive criticism.. isn't that what everyone's skinning thread is for? That's just me speaking, though.

I think it would be more effective if we had a "hardcore critique" thread.. letting people post a particular skin where others could contribute their ideas.

[deano_ue]

So the idea is to have multiple people skin the same character to see which one is the "best"?

yes and no, 2 people would skin the same character say if it had 8 people in the first round, tier 1 would have 2 people who would skin say cap america, tier 2 with another two people would skin superman and so forth

It's an interesting idea, but hardly fair. There are many diff levels of skinning expertise possessed by the various skinners in the community; they all create within their own abilities and to put 1 against another is somewhat intimidating. I think Billdamn said it best. There are a number of skinners that are considered the best here, C6 for example, (tho' I don't know if he skins still); who would want to go up against him? There is also the fact that it may cause some issues if the person who feels they SHOULD win, doesn't. I'm just voicing my opinion on this & these may not be issues that can't be overcome, but just something to consider.

it is something i thought about and why i suggested the whole thing be anonymous you wouldn't know who you were against until it was shown on the boards, I understand your fears aly and i agree with them to an extent, the main focus behind this idea was to get the boards back to pushing the limit of everyone's talent.

i really feel that in the younger more popular days people grew a lot more in there art as others offered feedback and you wanted to do better to prove yourself, i feel myself included a lot of people have fallen into a comfort zone, and i know that last comment is going to annoy a lot of people but it's the way i feel

[Aly Cat]

That's totally understandable, but say YOU skinned spidey & then discovered you were up against C6, that's kind of a let down & no real challenge when he is concidered 1 of the better skinners here. Laughing Paradox makes a good point on how losing could affect that skinner, people tend to be a bit thin skinned where their skins are concerned and if you are just starting or not been around a while you are ALREADY nervous about displaying your work here to everyone; being told that your stuff wasn't good enough to win can be disheartening. Again, I'm just voicing my opinion; I was just pointing out my concerns on the subject, not any fears.

[deano_ue]

agreed and understood, and it's points that yourserlf and LP are making which are some of the first obstacles i thought of with this idea. which is why i said in the first post, that things could get nasty and unless you were able to take it don't get into the game.

basically it's like any sport you will always find someone who has more skill or been practicing longer, if you don't want to ave to face that challenge then don't play the sport

[Tomato]

I would say instead of making the matchups free-for-alls, I'd put them on "tiers" based on the stuff they know how to do... Like, Tier 1 would be skinners who can do base recolors, Tier 2 would be able to do minor extras and some sort of highlighting technique, Tier 3 has made(or has the capacity to make) at least one full-fledged base, etc.

Basically, that sort of thing would put you and Pod in the same Tier, AA and C6 in the same Tier, etc.

Also, I'd say maybe instead of having a wolverine skin off or something, maybe like a redesign of a character. For me, a better design can often trump a better technical job, and some people have more skill at that.

[Gremlin]

I think even anonymity would be a problem, as some skinners (C6 being the most obvious in my mind) have really really specific styles. Perhaps if you also limited the base skins? Say, everyone has to use Gryphon's bases. Altering the musculature might make it a little easier. But that might make it more difficult, because some people might loathe those bases.

But I don't skin, so I can't say I speak for anyone.

EDIT: 'Mato's got a good idea. I like that.

[Aly Cat]

I actually like the points made by Tomato & Gremlin, the only issue I see with Gremlins suggestion on using specific bases, you would have a TON under that depending on wether or not the skinner uses their own or pre-made bases out there; I don't know what is still being used by people. The redisign is a good idea as an option & may be a better way to draw a wider majority of skinners to participate.

[AfghanAnt]

While I doubt I'll be a part of this as a skinner, I would like to be a judge.

Also I really like the redesigning idea. It would make this easier to judge since skill levels are so varied and I personally dislike skinning something someone skinned recently. I've usually have a 6 months rule just so I don't step on anyone's toes.

A prize! The winner should be hosted as HeroForce or something.

[Podmark]

I'll definitely agree there's a serious potential problems involved in this, but it also could be alot of fun. I really like the same base idea. Restricted to minor face alterations, that would make anonymous submissions much easier. The more I think about it the more I like it as a design off (personal note: I'm not the best designer in the world) we could also have sister competitions in drawing and hero tool design submissions.  I'll agree with UE that if you entered you'd have to know what to expect. The tiers idea might also be useful.

Not sure if I'd actually enter though. Time frame in particular could make me entering difficult.

[Gremlin]

How about avatars for posters who lack them? That came up in the other skinning challenge thread. Say, in each contest the skinners are coming up with a concept, design and skin for, say, thalaw or catwhowalksbyhimself or stumpy. (I think they're avatar-less but I'm not sure)

[Courtnall6]

I still skin Aly...just not nearly as prolific as I use to be...

This idea reminds me of the old Golden Skinny awards. I ended up losing to Gryphon I think. I was disappointed but happy to see I came pretty close to the top skinner at the time. I also remember it ruffled a few feathers and the Golden Skinnys went away pretty quick after that.

I don't like the idea of inhibiting skinners for the competition...like forcing them to use a certain base or minor face alterations. I would just get annoyed knowing I can do better be not being allowed to. Tiers would probably be the best way to go...but then who decides who belongs in what tier? How many skinners would be offended by being placed in lower tier than they think they are and then just pull out of the competion all together.

If not tiers...then redesigns, avatars, or originals based off a power type would have to be the way to go. A good design can give a poor skin higher marks.

[Tomato]

How many skinners would be offended by being placed in lower tier than they think they are and then just pull out of the competion all together.

That's why I'd say placing them based on the skills they've already shown... like, if someone REALLY want to be in the same tier as you are, they can make a base before the competition... doesn't have to be a GOOD base, just a base.

[Star]

Regarding people being unhappy with being placed in a tier, or not winning ... isn't that a risk you run when entering a competition? You could tie yourself in knots trying not to offend everyone, but ultimately, nobody is forcing people to enter into the competition in the first place.

Why not have the top five skinners (by forum consenus) act as judges? Then they can face-off for the "top tier" title at the end?

Anyway, really cool idea ... maybe cool enough to get me to start skinning if the competition becomes a regular thing on this forum.

[daglob]

Styles aside, sometimes I just like one skin better than another. My favorite skin for Superman REN is Atomic Robot's 1940 skin, and all the other people who have done skins for him have turned out some fantastic skins.

Other times, stuff just WORKS. I did a Machine Man skin that I thought turned out rather well, and would put it up against a similar one from C6 any day. I might lose, but hey, I might win (of course, C6 would win either way, that one has a base skin by him).

[House Quake]

If not tiers...then redesigns, avatars, or originals based off a power type would have to be the way to go. A good design can give a poor skin higher marks.

Bingo

I might steal this idea and run something similiar on the FFC forums.  My thoughts would be more or less like the American Idol of Skinning. 
- Staying true to the vibe of FF it would be based on original designs whether avatars or power based archtypes... or even just from a name.
- Two or three judges would be selected to offer 'expert' critique (thoiugh every one could)
- 'X' amount of skinners would begin and their names would be known
- Each week (or two) a skinning challenge would be assigned to them all.  For instance week 1 could be creating a 'fire based' character; week two... create an avatar for some one with out one; week three create a character named Lavalier; etc.
- Voting on the skins would be done via a 'public poll' with the higher ranked skins(skinners) making it to the next round.  Each judge may also get some sort of vote as well
- The number of skinners who don't make it would depend on how many joined in the first place.
- Keep going till we get a winner.  Maybe we can get Gryphon to return a skin a duet at the end. 

Just thoughts

[Gremlin]

How many skinners would be offended by being placed in lower tier than they think they are and then just pull out of the competion all together.

That's why I'd say placing them based on the skills they've already shown... like, if someone REALLY want to be in the same tier as you are, they can make a base before the competition... doesn't have to be a GOOD base, just a base.

What about making tiers voluntary? Three tiers, starting at three, two better than three, and one the top ranking. If somebody wanted to assign themselves a particular tier, they can choose for themselves. I think everyone involved would be honest enough to assess their own skill well enough, and mature enough to not pick a lower tier just to win.

[style]

Hey I say do this like a science project. (Remember those when you were young?)Whoever has the best skin and is really ingenuitive with what they came up with and don't just limit it to just the skin you can base it on the skoping or meshing work they used too. And why not have teams of individuals like one person skopes while the other skins. And don't base it on one character. How about a team (ex. Power Rangers, X-Force, G.I. Joe, Bionic Six) preferably one we haven't seen done yet. And it can be originals too. Whatta ya say?! Shoot I have an idea already!!! (Man if we did this some 2 years ago me and Revanant would have one this with the Ninja Turtles hands down! Or AA could have got it with his Hive World originals!)

[deano_ue]

glad to see my idea has sparked interest

now dance puppets dance

[Star]

I reckon stick to skins first.

If that competition works well, then you can expand it to include projects, like "best skin/skope team". That would be totally sweet.

But yeah, start the competition with skins first ... get the rules down, decide on who the judges will be, and see how many people actually want to participate.

My 2 cents.

[AfghanAnt]

I reckon stick to skins first.

If that competition works well, then you can expand it to include projects, like "best skin/skope team". That would be totally sweet.

But yeah, start the competition with skins first ... get the rules down, decide on who the judges will be, and see how many people actually want to participate.

See I think that is unfair. You should not be limited to meshes/skopes. I think options would really make this interesting and an actual challenge and give people with different styles a better chance.

A good example of this :

All three are the same character, different meshes and it makes a difference.

[Courtnall6]

That's my old standard skin for Ren's mesh...he's been updated since...

[daglob]

That's my old standard skin for Ren's mesh...he's been updated since...

But did you post it or are you keeping it to yourself?

(You fiend!)

[Tomato]

no, it's actually on Ren's site... check his skins page.