Baseskins - What are the rules?

[Swingman]

Hey all.

I think I pretty much know the answer to this, but I would like to be a 100 percent to avoid accidentally stepping on any ones toes. I'm thinking about venturing into the enticing world of skinning, but due to limited drawing skills I'll probably have to make heavy use of the baseskins out there to make anything half decent. So as the subject implies, I'm wondering what are the common rules concerning this? Is the baseskins free to use no strings attached or do I have to seek the original artists permission before "publishing" anything, and is there any other considerations to take into account?

[daglob]

If it's posted someplace, it's free for use. Even if it isn't stated in a readme or something, it's only right to credit the creator of the base skin you use in your own readme file.

[laughing paradox]

As Daglob mentioned, make sure you credit the original creator... and good luck skinning! If you have any further questions, don't hesitate to ask the forum.. it's a pretty friendly group here that are willing to help.

[area34]

As someone who has stepped on toes or rather gotten as close as you can- brushed toes heavily? If you have a doubt, post it. Court and others don't care how you use the base as long as your bringing your style to it.

[deano_ue]

If it's posted someplace, it's free for use.

ummm no, unless the creator has said it's free to use then it's not. by that logic i can use anything thats posted on the net

[area34]

I think Daglob meant a posted base. Not just anything posted but a base that is on the nets.

[detourne_me]

If it's posted someplace, it's free for use.

ummm no, unless the creator has said it's free to use then it's not. by that logic i can use anything thats posted on the net

That logic is correct TUE, welcome to the internet. You are free to do anything you like with what you find on the internet. Nobody can dictate what you do in your own home with what people have freely distributed.
WILL you and your actions be looked upon in high regards by this community when you do such a thing is THE issue.

Please keep that in mind.
So if you have any doubts, ask about it.

[Swingman]

Thanks for the answers everyone and I'll be sure to credit the baseskin artist, I would never have thought it any other way.

Court and others don't care how you use the base as long as your bringing your style to it.

This on the other hand leaves me a little uncertain. Is it "wrong" to use the baseskin ( or pieces of it) exactly as it is, in your creations or is it expected that you alter it somehow to "bring your own style"? Sorry if I'm reading you a little too literally, but I just want to be sure I got this right:) The main reason I would be using baseskins is not so much to save time or something to that effect, but because my artistic skills doesn't quite suffice when it comes to muscle-tones and shadowing. Just to give you a concrete (although extreme) example; would it in principal be okay to take a baseskin, change the skin-color to blue, nothing more and then "publish" it here, as long as I remember to give credit to the baseskin artist? Don't worry I'm not actually planning to do this

WILL you and your actions be looked upon in high regards by this community when you do such a thing is THE issue.

That's precisely the reason I asked the question. I wanted to make sure I didn't overstep any of this communities unwritten rules. The artists here has given me and others so much over the years, the last thing I want is to make any one of them angry or annoyed, cause they feel I am stealing from them...

[murs47]

You'll be fine Swingman. Just go ahead and give skinning a shot. If you bend/break a rule I'm sure someone will politely notify you. Best of luck, and have fun.

[daglob]

I should have clarified that if a base skin is posted someplace (Yahoo group, Freedom Fortress, NPI) it is free for anyone to use, otherwise why would it be posted?

If you take parts of dfferent skins and make a composite skin, that is kittbashing, and, with few exceptions, it is frowned upon.

However, I think that most skinners go through that phase as they learn their skills. Those are usually skins that (with few exceptions) should never be released.

[Swingman]

I'm still not quite sure if I grasp where the lines are drawn between kitbashing and actual skinning. If I ,to avoid frowning, shouldn't use parts of the baseskins as they are, what are they "published" for? Just for reference/inspiration? But I think I see what you're saying, Murs47. I got to take my chances in the big bad skinning world of freedom reborn and live life a little dangerous I'm ready to possibly learn my lesson the hard way. First obstacle must be to actual finish something anyway...

[area34]

Basically If it's a released base skin you can do however much or little, you want to it and it's fine to release. We're saying that it's frowned upon / not accepted to take pieces from someones finished skins and include them in your skin. If you just stick to bases then, you'll be fine.

[Swingman]

Okay, I guess I get it now. Thanks for the clarification Area34, and I think that answer was kinda of what I was hoping for.

[DoctorRuina]

I confess that often kittbash skins or I use other skins as guide (though I attempt not to do it). But I do not see what is the problem. I neither ask for merit for my skins, nor gain money with them. I only seek to enjoy and to share the skins that I create (or recreate).
If this supposes a problem I will have to use the skins that I do only for my personal use.
I believe that we are a community and a community shares freely what has.
Anyway I ask for excuses if I have bothered someone.

[UnkoMan]

The problem is people don't want somebody just recolouring something they've done and going "Hey look, I'm great" and all that. It happens. It's happened often enough for people to get quite upset by it, so we try to make sure it doesn't happen out of respect for everybody.

I totally started out with first very crummy skins and then a bit of kitbashing and overtracing. It helped me a lot when I was starting out, though, so I encourage people to try it, even if they don't post it all over. It's good practice. All my skins are free to mess AND show off for critiques, as long as you give a mention.

Anyhow, blahdy blah. Base skins are there to be used as bases. You give credit, you're good. Simple! Should I have even replied to this? I just realized it is from ten days ago. That's a million years in internet time!

[life_matrix]

In the archived thread "Base skins", UnfluffyBunny had a good explanation of kitbashing:

if you take -any- part of anyone elses TGA and put it on another TGA it's kitbashing.
even if for example, I took a green arrow skin, and wanted to move it to another mesh, if I arranged the extras from the skin to fit the wireframe of the new mesh, that's still kitbashing.

the ONLY exception to this rule is base skins, unless explicit permission is given, IE. Valandar has commented previously that the standard skins for his unusual meshes, for example his transformers, may be used as base skins

Also, I think it should be pointed out that "kitbashing" from a skin by Irrational Games from either Freedom Force or FFvT3R is a legitimate thing to do. It's still a form of kitbashing, so it might be frowned upon by some and it would still be a good idea to give some credit to Irrational. However, Irrational already gave permission to modify their skins and meshes.

As I seem to recall, there used to be an excellent thread about kitbashing on the Freedom Force forums over at fourcolorexplosion.com. But that was just a temporary home for Freedom Reborn back when the site was still recovering from a hack attack. But now the contents of the FourColorExplosion forums appear to be gone...

Anyway, someone explained kitbashing to me several years ago and most of it I remember. But there are a couple things I'm still foggy on. Specifically, about kitbashing standard skins for unusual meshes: As long as the original artist is given credit and said artist did not specifically state that kitbashing their stuff is prohibited... is that permissible?

I seem to recall an argument over this which goes something like this:

Since some unusual meshes do not have a base skin from which to create new skins (nor a base skin available that's even close), then kitbashing from the standard skin which is included should be kosher unless stated otherwise. Otherwise, it would be impossible to create new skins without sufficient PhotoShop skills to create a base skin in the first place.

Of course, I understand that even if there is not a base skin specifically made for a given mesh, one can usually find a base skin that will work without much difficulty. (Though it may or may not require a bit of cutting and pasting.) However, this is not always the case.

Further, is it safe to assume that skins that comes with meshes with names that start with "base_", "male_", "female_", "athletic_" are to be considered a "base skin"? I'm asking because I have at least one example where such a mesh does not even come with a readme: female_afro.zip. And what about cases where a mesh starting with "base_", "male_", or "female_" does not technically contain a "nude skin", but only very simple costume(s) (and the readme does not mention "base skin")?

I'm asking these questions because I can't find the answers and I think they need addressing. Especially since, these days, more and more Freedom Force fans are dropping off the radar and becoming impossible to contact by any means.

PS: It seems the term "nude skin" is interchangeable with "base skin".