Editing Versatile meshes in NIFSkope?

[John Jr.]

OK, very newbie question, but I couldn't find an answer with the "search" feature. How I can edit Tommyboy's great Versatile meshes with NIFSkope? I opened "Tom Female" and the list shows me a lot of different "hairs", but I can't see them, so I supposed they're hidden, but I clicked on the one I wanted and it's not "hidden", I turned on and off the "hidden" option in several pieces and nothing happened. How I can turn "visible" the parts I want?
Thanks in advance!

[Podmark]

Usually you have to turn off the hidden on the editable mesh node which will be inside the part's node. Otherwise you usually have to uncheck hidden on the part node. Hopefully that made sense.

[John Jr.]

It did and helped a lot, Thanks.
I had no problem in making capes, gloves and hair visible, but I cannot make the guns visible. I tried with the original and the gun kfs I found in Tom's site, with no effect. May someone give me a hand here, please?

[hoss20]

Are the pieces not visible in Nifskope or Character Tool? There are many pieces in the Tom Versatiles that aren't skinned, so they don't show up in either. In Nifskope, you might see the object highlighted, but once you click off of it, it disappears. It also won't be viewable in the Character Tool. The problem might be alpha channels. If you're referencing the male Tom_versatile in your last post, the mesh and all of it's pieces are alpha enabled and some of the pieces won't show up until you change the alpha channel. (I did a quick check on the female_versatile and it didn't look like the tga's were alpha enabled.) I know you've been doing a lot of skinning and have been fairly active in the community, so I'm assuming you know all about alpha channels rather than offend you by going on about a topic of which you already have knowledge. Just let us know if I'm on to something or way off base.

[daglob]

Choose Render>Show Hidden from the menu. What you get will look like a mess, but in and among all that you might see the guns. If you keep clicking (or double-clicking works better sometimes) in the area and watching the "parts list", you might see it selected, and you can make it visible all the time. Right-hand weapons and left hand weapons are separated with quite a lot of pieces in between.

One of Tommy's Male meshes (Male Versatile Fixed, I think) has a reference for a gun, but no guns that I've ever been able to find. However, when I used the mesh for Starhawk, I scoped a gun in there, and it behaved like any other gun as far as the animation went.

Someplace I have a bunch of weapons I got from Turbosquid a long time ago; I need to find them...

[John Jr.]

Hoss,
I can't see them in Ctool or Nifskope. I made the skin for the guns in the right file (I checked the map Tom provided).
Daglob,
It's exactly the male fixed version and I couldn't find the guns either. I'll try your other suggestions like the alpha.
Thanks to both.

[hoss20]

What application are you using to do your skinning? If it's Photoshop, on the Layers window, click on Channels. If the skin/mesh is alpha enabled, you'll see a layer for RGB, Red, Green, Blue, and then Alpha or Alpha 1. Click on the Alpha channel and you'll see it's in black and white. Anything that is in black will not be seen on the skin even if it's unhidden on the mesh. Wherever you made your skin for the object desired, you'll need to make it white in the corresponding place in the Alpha channel. (You can also use shades of grey if you ever want to make something transparent.) If you're still having trouble, feel free to send me the mesh and skin and I'll be happy to take a look at it.

[cmdrkoenig67]

I had the same issue with the Tom_Versatile_linked mesh (when I was making my Chewbacca Skope)...I unhid the crossbow and no matter what I did, I couldn't see it anywhere (in NIFSkope, C Tool, in-game, etc...)...I had to SKope in the crossbow from Tom's female_versatile mesh (since it was the only one that showed up in NIFSkope).

Dana

[daglob]

Crazy notion-I should have thought of this before: If you choose the Material's block below a editable mesh in Nifscope, you can right click on it and bring up a pallette/menu of settings. I'm pretty sure the alpha slider near the bottom will actually set the alpha for you, so that the mesh piece is alway a certain transparency from none to 100%. I use it to check pieces that I have activated the alpha channel on. This would mean that you could hide any part (ALL the parts of a TV mesh are Alpha Enabled) and it still won't show up if it's not flagged "hidden", maybe even if you tell it to "Show All".

I'll have to go back and check out the invisible guns in Male Versatile Fixed...

By the way, you can also change the color of pieces with this pallette.

[JKCarrier]

I had the same issue with the Tom_Versatile_linked mesh (when I was making my Chewbacca Skope)...I unhid the crossbow and no matter what I did, I couldn't see it anywhere (in NIFSkope, C Tool, in-game, etc...)...I had to SKope in the crossbow from Tom's female_versatile mesh (since it was the only one that showed up in NIFSkope).

I remember running into this too. For some reason, on tom_versatile, none of the guns will show up, but the rifles show up fine. And tom_f_versatile, the opposite is true. So between the two of them, you should be able to cobble together whatever you need.

[John Jr.]

OK. I'll try to skope a gun then.
Another question. I want to use a "Female Tom" in my next mod, but the file is huge. There's a way to remove the unnecessary parts faster than remove one by one in Nifskope?
Thanks for your help, guys!

[John Jr.]

Now I'm completely lost.
I tried just paste the items I needed in others meshes, but the pasted parts are not visible in CTool or in the game. I can see them normally in Nifskope, but it's all. I tried it with different parts from meshes, but had the same problem with all. I checked the TGAs, the NiSource texture, everything looks okay, but no signal of the parts. I'm sure most of them have no Alfa channel, so I don't know what to do...

[hoss20]

OK. I'll try to skope a gun then.

   You could try one of Tommy's meshes that has a gun (I found the Krang_tv, just going alphabetically). The guns show properly for any of Tommyboy's releases that are supposed to have them.

Another question. I want to use a "Female Tom" in my next mod, but the file is huge. There's a way to remove the unnecessary parts faster than remove one by one in Nifskope?

   One thing to do would be to grab one of Tommy's tvlite meshes. He has pretty much only included the pieces needed for that particular mesh. The standard tom_f_versatile nif is 3.95 MB while the Catwoman2_tvlite nif (because I can tell you're a DC guy) is only 501 KB. That particular Catwoman mesh includes a whip, cape, ears, bootcuffs, belt, and a loincloth and is still nearly an eighth of the size.
   Another thing to keep in mind regarding file size is the art files. You only need to include the tga's for the pieces you have included in the mesh (someone, please correct me on this, if need be). Let's say that I create a mesh that has hair, a cape, wristbands, a belt, and bootcuffs. If I eliminated the unnecessary art files (wings_t, terror_bits, etc.), I could reduce the size of the art folder (for the standard tom_versatile) from 3.34 MB to 1.82 MB

   Also, for both scenarios, moving pieces from one of Tommy's versatile meshes to another one is 10 times easier than moving them to another type of mesh (except for maybe male_basic).

[John Jr.]

I'm trying to do just that, but now the skoped items just are visible on Nifskope, like I explained earlier. I tried the process with different meshes from different creators (always trying to use two meshes from the same creator) always with this problem. I skoped items before and never had this problem. I know the TGAs are there, I used skins with no Alfa channel, cannot say what is wrong...

[daglob]

Another suggestion that may be unnecessary: If you moved both the "mesh" and the title block, be sure that neither is flagged Hidden.

[hoss20]

I'm sorry, John Jr. My last post was useless to you. I was writing it when you posted and didn't bother checking the updated thread. My offer still stands if you want to send me the mesh that's giving you trouble. I've done a fair amount of skoping, though not so much for release. It may help just to get a different set of eyes on the problem.

[Kenn]

OK. I'll try to skope a gun then.
Another question. I want to use a "Female Tom" in my next mod, but the file is huge. There's a way to remove the unnecessary parts faster than remove one by one in Nifskope?
Thanks for your help, guys!

I've taken to, rather than removing the pieces I don't need, start with a smaller mesh, and copy the pieces I do need from that.   I've also found that it makes it easier to make meshes that work with both and that way.

[John Jr.]

I'm sorry, John Jr. My last post was useless to you. I was writing it when you posted and didn't bother checking the updated thread. My offer still stands if you want to send me the mesh that's giving you trouble. I've done a fair amount of skoping, though not so much for release. It may help just to get a different set of eyes on the problem.

Hoss,
Your post are never "useless", you're always trying to help and I'm very grateful for it.
I manged to "fix' my problem, just a stupid, newbie mistake. I pasted the parts in the "body" (right clicked the "body" of the mesh). I just pasted it in the Scene Root and Presto! All problems solved.
Thanks to everyone who helped!