create a new freedom force with a freeware game engine like ogre 3d?

[Epimethee]

For any dev types out there, here's my log of the coding effort. My background is professional software development (though not a professional game developer), so I'm quite geeky about logging things.

I'm certainly no professional dev, but from work and FFX, I can certainly appreciate the value of logs and code comments. Thanks for sharing them. They indeed give a clearer picture of all that you've accomplished. BTW, are you using PandAI, or was it released too recently?

-Performance has not been an issue (though, of course, I've only been working with about 10 characters at once). The frame rates do vary in the pics, but most likely because I'm running in a Windows box and haven't optimized for that. (thanks to Panda, this game should work on Windows, Mac, Linux, and evene browsers theoretically)

Since my home computer is a Mac, it's a nice advantage of Panda as far as I'm concerned. It certainly beats having to use virtualization all the time, no matter how good.

BTW, the Panda demos have worked quite well on OS X (not a huge surprise, as Panda's OpenGL support seems better than for DirectX). Anyone tried Linux?

In SuperSquad (my codename for the project) - meshes can share animation folders, this cuts down on total space needed and will make it easy to "customize" a character's animations.

Excellent news. I'd guess that if people adhere to a naming scheme, it'll also reduce incompatibilities and confusion.  


Thanks for the info on the framerate, guys. While, as you mention, there's still a lot of code and art assets to add, it is reassuring to see that it has yet to be an issue.

[abenavides]

Hadn't made a final decision on license. Probably leaning towards indy commercial or shareware/donateware.

The one thing I loved about FF (which I didn't fleshed out in my game 10+ yrs ago) was campaign or "story" mode. I would want a definite story to be playable but a lot of possibilities for player to not just go mission by mission . So there would be lots of detours for patrolling, random encounters, do this mission before that one, etc. Kind of World of warcrafty actually, now that i think of it, you have side missions, but there's a major storyline.

I have an original storyline in mind and I could never officialy condone it, of course, but I would probably also do mods for myself like JLA:Pawns of darkness . (maybe I would actually finish issue #7 in this )

At the moment, I don't need additional resource as I'm not really pushing it too hard. If that changes, I would look for help - at the moment, I do have Tommy as my art director and a few other folks I've been showing this to who are all ready to help test, add mods, etc.

Not using Panda AI yet, it was created in 1.7. It basically does pathfinding , evading, etc. Drawback is that you need to create a geographical mesh for the terrain and then run it through tha pandaai tools to create a file which is used by the AI. Not sure if this is going to be good for my end product as it's not too flexible. They are improving it though.

I'm using custom AI python code (not too different from my ez danger room code all those years ago ). There is actually a good sample on the panda forums called pandasteer which does everythkng with just python. I have a copy which I'll look through for ideas eventually.

[Epimethee]

At the moment, I don't need additional resource as I'm not really pushing it too hard. If that changes, I would look for help - at the moment, I do have Tommy as my art director and a few other folks I've been showing this to who are all ready to help test, add mods, etc.

Keep us posted on your progress.

Not using Panda AI yet, it was created in 1.7. It basically does pathfinding , evading, etc. Drawback is that you need to create a geographical mesh for the terrain and then run it through tha pandaai tools to create a file which is used by the AI. Not sure if this is going to be good for my end product as it's not too flexible. They are improving it though.

Yeah, that looked liked a huge pain point for something which needs as much flexibility as a super-hero game, with dynamic environment and characters of wildly different capabilities.

[lugaru]

The one thing I loved about FF (which I didn't fleshed out in my game 10+ yrs ago) was campaign or "story" mode. I would want a definite story to be playable but a lot of possibilities for player to not just go mission by mission . So there would be lots of detours for patrolling, random encounters, do this mission before that one, etc. Kind of World of warcrafty actually, now that i think of it, you have side missions, but there's a major storyline.

I would have loved this in Freedom Force... something of a random challenge generator. Maybe one option for Patrol (muggers and maybe a robbery or super villain) and then at a high level you could get side quests kind of like invasions in XCOM. "A supervillain group is robbing a science lab" or "Aliens are attacking this city".

One of my ideas for a Freedom Force 3 is that side missions have a challenge rating and you get more prestige if you undershoot it and a lot less if you overshoot it. For example send Batman after a group of terrorists and get great prestige, send superman (beating them in 20 seconds) and get very little. That way you will end up trying to send a team that is proportionate to the crisis instead of just your 4 uber characters each time.

I would probably end up replaying it 50 times just building different teams and leaning heavily on the "random" content. I've always wanted a "team manager" game beyond your basic superhero action. You know... that feeling that you are in the watchtower or avengers mansion checking out threats and responding accordingly.

[naitvalis]

well i'm very happy to see already some good starts, i will suggest 3 things
1) The embrional state of this projects maybe hosted on some site with a new name(the things must be named to go on). on this site,the list of things to do so maybe who have competence can give a hand.
2) everyone have created meshes or skins or other things for ff give the full permission to use them in this new projects.
3)a new section of this forum about this project can be useful.

[Tawodi Osdi]

There is coming up for a name for the project.  Since this is a clone of the Freedom Force concept and not an official continuance of it, there should be some sort of name associated with it.  Perhaps, Liberty League or something?

[Podmark]

There is coming up for a name for the project.  Since this is a clone of the Freedom Force concept and not an official continuance of it, there should be some sort of name associated with it.  Perhaps, Liberty League or something?

Alex said above that he's calling his project Super Squad.

[lugaru]

Now that we see that Irrationals next project is more bioshock, well, all the more reason, no?

On the other hand... yay! More bioshock!

[yell0w_lantern]

It sounds like you can't use a transparent map to hide mesh parts then, Tommy?

[tommyboy]

It sounds like you can't use a transparent map to hide mesh parts then, Tommy?

I think that you probably could, but better than that, you can make a programme to build versatile type meshes on-the-fly. I made a very simple one where you could add a choice of bootcuff to a mesh. You could add sliders to adjust position, colour, size and shape:

If someone who actually knew what they were doing turned their hand to it, well, you can imagine the possibilities.
Plus, you dont have to make the parts in Max/Blender/Maya. You can write programmes to create geometry on the fly in panda, to create textures on the fly. It really is very versatile.

[Podmark]

That is pretty exciting.

[John Jr.]

To and Alex,
What you twp are doing is nothing less than amazing. I agree with Pod, it's exciting. I feel we are seeing the birth of a instant classic.
Good luck to both of you and thanks for all your efforts!

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

So in other words, a full fledge hero builder is possible, like in CO or CoX, while still allowing for old style meshing and skinning.  Pretty cool possibilities here.

[Midnight]

Huh. And I thought this topic would flameout and die after I posted.

I have some webspace/bandwidth I'd be willing to donate if the project so requires. Sling me an email (aaron.j.noble@gmail.com) if any of you are interested.

[lugaru]

So in other words, a full fledge hero builder is possible, like in CO or CoX, while still allowing for old style meshing and skinning.  Pretty cool possibilities here.

Reminds me of the days of the crazy VX meshes that had all the pieces hidden in them, I used the same meshes for a bunch of skins. But I'm still an awful hexxer and skinner so doing it with sliders would rock my world.

Also it could allow for some limited item usage.

[The Phantom Eyebrow]

This is all a bit above my head I fear, but... wow... this is some exciting looking / sounding stuff.  Godspeed mod makers of FF!

[abenavides]

Thx to bump maps, which the panda engine supports, even someone like me (who's made maybe 10 skins in my life) can whip up a snazzy looking Professor Zoom.

[Tomato]

Huh... I'd written off all attempts to put FF on another engine as crazy talk, but looking through here I'm really impressed. It doesn't hurt that Panda supports Bump mapping, which is just about the only thing I feel the FF series lacked graphically.

I'm about to pull it up myself just to play around with the engine. If you need help, all you have to do is ask.

[DrMike2000]

I am absolutely amazed with what you've accomplished here, Alex and Tommy.

I love the fact that this kind of grassroots game development is becoming possible now, thanks to engines like Panda.

[abenavides]

Thanks !
I've grown to love Panda coding over the last year and a half, since I stumbled across it.

BTW - here's a link to a commercial game done in Panda:

http://www.vampyrestory-game.com/

(in addition to Toontown Onlines and Pirates of the Carribbean Online)

[vamp]

Wow guys. This is some pretty exciting and amazing stuff. I always thought freedom force would die. But this is awesome. Can't wait to see what else ya'll come up with.

[lugaru]

Love the way it looks with bump mapping... I remember before FFVT3R came out it was an expected feature but it somehow did not make it in.

[tommyboy]

Yes, bump/normal mapping is awesome.
I make a mesh and skin and think, "that looks OK". Then I add the bump and specular and even my stuff makes me go "wow..". It really raises the look a whole level or two.
Skinners should be really excited by this as it makes skins even more important and versatile. You want to have actual textures in a model, like hair or fur or denim or scale armour? You have it, whilst retaining a ridiculously low poly count that makes for good frame rates.

And remember people, just because there is already one project in progress does not mean others cannot be started.  If you have a dream game, try to make it happen. If what Alex is doing looks like your dream game, make yours anyway. The existence of one beat-em-up never stopped others being made. Doom actually made more fps games made, rather than people saying "oh, mine will be redundant".
And if you dont succeed, at least you will know that you tried, that you gave it your best shot.

[Tomato]

I downloaded the nescessary files last night, so I'll be goofing off with it myself sometime this weekend. I'll likely pull it up sometime this weekend, see if I can find some tutorials for some simple games.

[lugaru]

How much of an internal language does it have? I've played a dozen games with python and I can usually do the bits that runs off its own language but once it gets to python I'm often lost (See Civ4 for example, did some modding for that).

[AfghanAnt]

Neat.

[abenavides]

Great points, Tommy. Anyone who's even a little interested in game-making, shoould check it out.

The Panda site is a lot better now than when we started (they've updated the docs, etc). And the forums there are very helpful (I get my stuff answered almost instantly sometimes).

The Panda download comes with a sample of something called "Roaming Ralph", which should introduce some concepts for games similar to FF. That and the panda walking tutorial in the manual are the 1st 2 things I really understood.

[Epimethee]

How much of an internal language does it have? I've played a dozen games with python and I can usually do the bits that runs off its own language but once it gets to python I'm often lost (See Civ4 for example, did some modding for that).

Panda's internal language is C++ – which is quite a bit harder than Python. (I'm somewhat surprised that Python feels that more obscure than other languages to you, Lugaru. It is considered a very good beginner's language. Pretty sure that, were you to do a few of the language's tutorials, you'd pick it up in no time.)

[lugaru]

I need to put some actual effort into learning... mostly I just "mod" in the sense of changing 10 to 11 or red to blue with a lot of trial and error. Still this is a chance to learn something with less limitations, as opposed to learning how to mod for a specific game and well, running into the brick walls set by the designers.

[Tawodi Osdi]

Is Panda Linux friendly?  I love Linux but it can be real pain in the you know where when it comes to making programs work on it.  I would love to try my hand at skinning and modding, but I can't get half of the programs I need to work on my machine.