IF you could change a superhero....

[herodad1]

if you could change something about any certain superhero/s what would it be?  1.) Spiderman's too strong. 10 tons seems to much to me. 2-5 tons seems more likely for his build.  2.) quit having Vision always getting destroyed and re-built. his abilities dont seem easy to duplicate or they would be copied by everyone. especially the military. 3.) un-super Superman. he's TOO super. 4.) give Galactus his power back. at one time in comics he was a force to be reckoned with. now he gets defeated/killed all the time. 4.) make Juggernaut unstoppable again. 5.) give Hulk only 1 personality. 6.) make steve rogers Captain America again. original costume and his trusty shield. 7.) give alot of jacked up heroes their original strength levels back. Thing, Shehulk, Luke Cage,and Colossus 8.) i want the blue furry ape-ish Beast back.  

[cmdrkoenig67]

if you could change something about any certain superhero/s what would it be?  1.) Spiderman's too strong. 10 tons seems to much to me. 2-5 tons seems more likely for his build.  2.) quit having Vision always getting destroyed and re-built. his abilities dont seem easy to duplicate or they would be copied by everyone. especially the military. 3.) un-super Superman. he's TOO super. 4.) give Galactus his power back. at one time in comics he was a force to be reckoned with. now he gets defeated/killed all the time. 4.) make Juggernaut unstoppable again. 5.) give Hulk only 1 personality. 6.) make steve rogers Captain America again. original costume and his trusty shield. 7.) give alot of jacked up heroes their original strength levels back. Thing, Shehulk, Luke Cage,and Colossus 8.) i wanted the blue furry ape-ish Beast back.  

I totally agree with you, where Spidey is concerned...Spiders don't have super strength, at least not like ants do.  I can understand agility and sticking to walls, but the strength thing, never fit.  I'd also love for the ape-like, wolverine-haired (but had it before Wolverine did) Beast came back too...I hate kitty-Beast.  Steve Rogers is THE Captain America...Captain Bucky is now and always will be...A fill-in.  I don't mind the idea of the Vision getting damaged, etc once in a while...But yeah...He needs to stay whole for a bit  without being scrapped.

Dana

[GhostMachine]

Severely tone down Wolverine's regeneration ability. I remember during the run on Uncanny X-Men when Paul Smith was the artist, Wolverine had been cut through with a katana that went all the way through his mid-section to the bone, which is an injury that would have killed a normal person, and it look something like two weeks to fully heal. His healing factor has been powered up to godlike levels now, as there was a story where he was burned down to just his brain, spinal cord and adamantium skeleton and grew a new body in a few hours.

Bring back Janet Van Dyne, the real Wasp. Hank Pym's Wasp costume looks fairly stupid, and when you think about it there's really no reason for him to wear any kind of mask or face-obscuring headgear since he doesn't have a secret identity.

And have Sentry, USAgent and Deadpool team up for a secret mission.....which turns out to be a suicide mission.

[The Hitman]

1. Make Guy Gardner a world-class a-hole again. He's starting to get boring to read again.

2. Remove Congorilla and Starman (the blue one) from JLA, give them their own book. They're excellent characters that have tons of potential, but are bogged down by the mediocrity of the rest of the team. Their recent one-shot was excellent.

3. More robots.

[Cyber Burn]

Severely tone down Wolverine's regeneration ability. I remember during the run on Uncanny X-Men when Paul Smith was the artist, Wolverine had been cut through with a katana that went all the way through his mid-section to the bone, which is an injury that would have killed a normal person, and it look something like two weeks to fully heal. His healing factor has been powered up to godlike levels now, as there was a story where he was burned down to just his brain, spinal cord and adamantium skeleton and grew a new body in a few hours.

Bring back Janet Van Dyne, the real Wasp. Hank Pym's Wasp costume looks fairly stupid, and when you think about it there's really no reason for him to wear any kind of mask or face-obscuring headgear since he doesn't have a secret identity.

And have Sentry, USAgent and Deadpool team up for a secret mission.....which turns out to be a suicide mission.

Usagent needs to be Super Patriot again, Captain Bucky needs to be not Captain America, and Steve Rogers needs to be the only Captain America.

And it's been awhile since I picked up a comic, who's the current Flash? I liked Barry Allen, but his death had meant something, and Wally West was the Flash for me. Now I just can't keep track of who's who.

[Courtnall6]

Revert Marvel and DC back to 1983 or so (before Robin becomes Nightwing). That'll fix a whole slew of problems right there.

[herodad1]

ahhh the 80's....

[USAgent]

And have Sentry, USAgent and Deadpool team up for a secret mission.....which turns out to be a suicide mission.

Horrible, horrible idea, USAgent is the glue that binds Marvel togeather, he is the epitamy of the Avengers, he was the best Captain America there ever was, he is named after a wiskey, he is loved by all!!!!!   (in my head)

[BentonGrey]

Hrmm...have you seen the DCUG?  That's basically my four year (and counting) attempt to answer this question.  I'll get around to Marvel one of these days....

Anyway, the big, obvious one is Aquaman.  I'd basically re-write his entire history, or at the VERY least, take him back to before his son was killed and ensure that story was never told again.  I have a write-up of my Aquaman outline somewhere...it took him from discovering Atlantis and his heritage to becoming king.  One of my favorite bits has him taking on the Suicide Squad on a black ops mission to nuke the city....but wow...yeah, there's plenty of room for improvement.  

I've also got outlines for Green Lantern, Hawkman, Green Arrow, Flash, the Atom (BIG changes for poor Ray, who has so often gotten the short end of the stick), and the Bat family as well.  They're all basically, 'well, I really hate what this character has become, so here's what I'd rather see.'  I started the Green Arrow one, but apparently it was lost at some point in time...

Revert Marvel and DC back to 1983 or so (before Robin becomes Nightwing). That'll fix a whole slew of problems right there.

Yeah...actually, I'd be pretty okay with that for the most part.  I think that would cover most of the major issues I've got with the way these characters have turned out.  From there it would just be a matter of making sure each of them had a place they were going to end up.  That's something that I'd like to see.  You can't keep telling stories forever, and when you try, you get the mess that is the world of modern comics.  I'd set up an ending for all the major players, a GOOD ending, and see torches passed in an orderly and meaningful way.

[murs47]

I'd make Eli Bradley Captain America, give Wolverine flight capabilities, have Sue divorce Reed, Spider-Man kill Norman Osborne, and have Magneto and Doctor Doom fall madly in love with each other just to see even more fans complain.

[BentonGrey]

I'd make Eli Bradley Captain America, give Wolverine flight capabilities, have Sue divorce Reed, Spider-Man kill Norman Osborne, and have Magneto and Doctor Doom fall madly in love with each other just to see even more fans complain.

Hardee-har-har.

See, having things change isn't necessarily a bad thing, and many of the modern storylines have been really interesting.  However, to get to Bucky-Cap (an idea I have no real problem with), they killed Steve like a punk.  To get to Dick as Batman, they had Batman kinda-sorta-maybe die.  Then they brought him back so he could emotionally torture his family.  That's wonderful.  To give us a new Aqualad with a really neat idea for a backstory they felt the need to kill Garth....of course, before that they killed off his family, tortured him for a few years, and took away his powers.  I could go on (and on, and on, and on), but my point is, a lot of these ideas are great, but they are invalidated by a thousand bad storytelling decisions that were made to get to them.  It would be so much better if the editors of each company would sit down and plot out a complete story arc on the big scale, and if the fans would be willing to accept real, lasting change if it was done well.

[DrMike2000]

I'd abolish continuity.

The furry blue ape Beast (to take an example) is still there, in your head and mine, herodad. He was a brilliant character - a smart funny ladies' man who didn't let his unusual looks get him down for once, unlike the precendence set by the Thing. In a universe like the Marvel U it makes sense that someone with blue fur could be regarded as just a bit exotic rather than freakish.  (I still enjoyed Morrison's take on him, by the way.)

Both universes (DC and Marvel) are battered beyond belief with the idea that any kind of change is meaningful or won't be reversed or whatever. The schtick of making the retcons part of the actual universe was genius when it was first done in Crisis on Infinite Earths, but its just got tired now.

I'd prefer to see a miniseries approach like JLA Classified applied to the popular characters. Want to write a mini-series where Bruce is Batman, and always has been? Do it. Want to write a two year story arc where Dick and Damian are Batman and Robin and Bruce never came back? Go for it. I'd read them both if they were well written. The idea of a single "true" state for each character is just a conceit.

[daglob]

I've got several general suggestions:

Excessive violence, sex, and psychological deviation does not equal mature subject matter. A lot of this stuff still strikes me like a bunch of little boys seeing how risque they can get before someone stops them. This doesn't bring in new readers, and some will be turned off by it and leave.

Maybe DC should have had Earth-26 instead of Crisis-basically started up new versions of the older characters, re-told some origins, modified a few and had a "New Silver Age". The old characters would still be around, and you cold still do a crossover every once in awhile. As a matte of fact, that might be the way to have introduced it in the first place (But when you already have the Justice Society and The Justice League, what's next?). I don't know what marvel could have done, but surely something. Then characters woldn't have to be killed off "because all the good stories had been written about them".

Stop taking Silver Age characters and making them grim and gritty when they were in no way EVER intended to be grim and gritty. If you want a grim and gritty version of a silver age character, make up your own. That's what they are doing anyway-using the name, power, and general appearence and making up a whole new personality.

Lighten up All this grim, gritty, dark, depressing, nihillistic, emo crap is no more realistic than the simplistic stuff from the '40s and '50s. Stuff began to improve in the '60s, and I think the best balance between light and dark came in the '80s when the independed comics first started to get distribution. I read to escape the misery and unhappiness of the world, not to get it rubbed into my face. I've lost nearly everything I ever had, but I still laugh at the antics of my cats, The Marx Brothers, and my granddaughter; the world is not all doom and gloom.

Make the heroes heroic again. Too many modern writers make me think of the secondary antagonist in a Steve Ditko story; the guys that keep saying: "Don't fight against evil-you can't win. It's no use bettering yourself-you can never accomplish anything anyway. Heroes are passe-look out only for yourself. I can't help my actions." I read to escape the misery and unhappines of the world, not to get it rubbed into my face. Stan gave his heroes flaws, he didn't go overboard on it though.

Make comics fun again. I realize that this is terribly subjective, but I feel that a lot of the fun is gone from comics. ALL the fun is gone from some of them.

[Tawodi Osdi]

The list is almost endless, but in my opinion, the etch-a-sketches that both Marvel and DC universes are drawn upon need a good shaking.  I don't mean some sort of all encompassing story arch that will break more than it fixes.  I mean a complete do over.  This would be especially useful for DC who has bought out a number of characters from other companies but have had little success introducing them into the mainstream universe.  They can also eliminate character concepts that never really worked for my like

Green Lantern's weakness to yellow and his general whininess.  

Aquaman's need to get soaked on an hourly basis.  

Buff the Atom up a little.  

Bring back Hawkman and Hawkwoman as husband and wife without making their world in a militaristic police state.  

Stop killing off the spouses of every super hero in the world.

That's just a start.

[Tawodi Osdi]

I'm dittoing both Dr Mike and Daglob. 

[thalaw2]

I wish the original Night Thrasher was properly developed.  I haven't read comics recently so I don't know if he's back to life. 

Fabian should have never taken over Thunderbolts.

[President Raygun]

I'm with Benton on Aquaman and I'd love to see the same thing for Hawkman, poor guy's got the most messed up continuity of them all. Just one example is the way DC says that all the Silver Age Hawkman appearances were Carter Hall (GA Hawkman) and not Katar Hol. It really makes me feel as if the editors have no respect for the character or the readers, and I'm not even a Hawkman fan.

[John Jr.]

Excessive violence, sex, and psychological deviation does not equal mature subject matter. A lot of this stuff still strikes me like a bunch of little boys seeing how risque they can get before someone stops them. This doesn't bring in new readers, and some will be turned off by it and leave.

Stop taking Silver Age characters and making them grim and gritty when they were in no way EVER intended to be grim and gritty. If you want a grim and gritty version of a silver age character, make up your own. That's what they are doing anyway-using the name, power, and general appearence and making up a whole new personality.

Make comics fun again. I realize that this is terribly subjective, but I feel that a lot of the fun is gone from comics. ALL the fun is gone from some of them.

That's my feelings about the subject too. I'm always surprised when someone says how much Geoff Johns loves the Silver Age and how much Silver Age-y DC became. Yeah, we had a lot of killing, necrophilia and rapes back there.
I'm not against change, in fact, I like Kyle Rayner better than Hal Jordan, I was satisfied with wally West as Flash and I really like Buck Barnes as captain America (and Steve Rogers is one of my all time favorites). Change can be good, it depends how it is done. You don't need to kill and older character or make him a psycho villain to get a new guy on the spotlight, you just need a different angle. I like the way Steve Rogers is an iconic, larger than life embodiment of higher values and I like the way Bucky is shown as a fallible man fighting for redemption and embetterment.
Unfortunately, comics are not written for kids or adults anymore. They're written for the writers and editors. I'm kinda of tired of read interviews where editors (like Quesada) or writers (like Geoff Johns) complains how the readers don't "get" their take... Yeah, how can they don't get how cool things are? 

[daglob]

I always thought that, instead of making Hal crazy, have him and a group of other GLs trying to save the power battery from an invasion by Qward, and have the battery blow up. It kills the Guardians, but makes the GLs closest to it Guardians themselves. So, Hal, Killowog, G'nort, Arisa, Katama Tui (or maybe Sinestro-at the last minute he won't let the Qwardians destroy the battery and he switches sides), and a few others become the new Guardians of the Galaxy. They re-create the power battery, find replacements for their sector of space, Kyle gets to be GL, Sinestro gets to foment rebellion, Killowog gets to keep him in line, G'nort's there, everybody's happy.

I LIKED Barry Allen, but he should have stayed dead. It's like ressurrecting Ben Parker.

I haven't read Spiderman since shortly after #500, but he was getting to be a whiny sittle snit. Stop it.

Wolverine is a samurai, not a homocidal maniac.

Remember that not long ago, this "attitude" that people are giving some characters was preceded by the words "Obnoxious", "Crude", "Arrogant", "Disrespectful", and a few others. Attitude does not make you "cool"; BEING "cool" makes you "cool".

Every time I look back at this thread, I want to write more.

[Tawodi Osdi]

One problem I have with Marvel is mutant-phobia.  It never really made sense.  Spiderman was popular with the people even when he was getting smeared by the press and chased by the police, the Fantastic Four are treated like celebrities, and The Avengers are America's team.  Among Earth's heroes are aliens and gods; yet, everyone in the world are afraid of the X-guys.  I could see it during the '60s run when prejudice was stronger in general and super-heroes were new on the scene, but it doesn't make since in modern comics.

[daglob]

One problem I have with Marvel is mutant-phobia.  It never really made sense.  Spiderman was popular with the people even when he was getting smeared by the press and chased by the police, the Fantastic Four are treated like celebrities, and The Avengers are America's team.  Among Earth's heroes are aliens and gods; yet, everyone in the world are afraid of the X-guys.  I could see it during the '60s run when prejudice was stronger in general and super-heroes were new on the scene, but it doesn't make since in modern comics.

I remember getting so sick of the "Mutant Menace" stuff, then it went away. Claremont brought it back, but he did it well, so it was okay. The first time... maybe the second. Then I got so sick of the "Mutant Menace" stuff I quit reading The X-Men.

Logically, there should be people who consider The X-Men just an other group of super-heroes. It's been 60 years since the first A-bomb was dropped, and (unless you are in an X-Men comic), we aren't knee-deep in mutants, so where is the menace? If you got evil mutants, we'll sic The X-Men or The Avengers on 'em. Simple.

Of course, there will also be a group that will hate them no matter what, but they should be in the minority by now.

[DrMike2000]

Grim and gritty has its place.

If I had to paint the superhero world one color, it would be straight-up-silver-age-joycore, as epitomised by Morrison's run on JLA. The stories are high-octane and ludicrous. Mr. Mxyzptlk's people are set to invade the Earth, and this ties in with Johnny Thunder's genie leaving us with a clueless n00b kid with two genies mixed up in a pen. Batman has to deal single-handedly with a telepathic ape, abnly assisted by robot duplicates of the League. etc etc. But Superman can still look at the reader and give you a sense of menace when he describes it. Captain Marvel is played straight, and even a little bit hard boiled. And I could share it all with my daughter when she was in single figures.

but...

I'd rather have the whole spectrum. This Christmas I acquired a re-run of Moore's Captain Britain, in many ways the seed of grim and gritty, and it was fantastic! I'd forgotten how bleak it was, like you really think there's no hope for the hero as two giant unstoppable forces collide around him and the whole of reality falls apart. The arc of Captain UK's trauma and recovery. Supporting cast members die. God dies (well, Merlin).

I think excessive violence, sex, foul language, crude humour and general irreverence all have their place in comics. But, I dont think that place is the heart of the Marvel or DC Universe.
Authority, Promethea, Swamp Thing, The Boys - all brilliant in their own way. Identity Crisis not so much.

[daglob]

Grim and gritty has its place.

If I had to paint the superhero world one color, it would be straight-up-silver-age-joycore, as epitomised by Morrison's run on JLA. The stories are high-octane and ludicrous. Mr. Mxyzptlk's people are set to invade the Earth, and this ties in with Johnny Thunder's genie leaving us with a clueless n00b kid with two genies mixed up in a pen. Batman has to deal single-handedly with a telepathic ape, abnly assisted by robot duplicates of the League. etc etc. But Superman can still look at the reader and give you a sense of menace when he describes it. Captain Marvel is played straight, and even a little bit hard boiled. And I could share it all with my daughter when she was in single figures.

but...

I'd rather have the whole spectrum. This Christmas I acquired a re-run of Moore's Captain Britain, in many ways the seed of grim and gritty, and it was fantastic! I'd forgotten how bleak it was, like you really think there's no hope for the hero as two giant unstoppable forces collide around him and the whole of reality falls apart. The arc of Captain UK's trauma and recovery. Supporting cast members die. God dies (well, Merlin).

I think excessive violence, sex, foul language, crude humour and general irreverence all have their place in comics. But, I dont think that place is the heart of the Marvel or DC Universe.
Authority, Promethea, Swamp Thing, The Boys - all brilliant in their own way. Identity Crisis not so much.

I aggree, except on Captain Marvel. He is basically a child in an adult body, and I persist in thinking that childhood is a time of innocence.

I'm afraid that the only comics I can share with my granddaughter these days are The Essentials and Showcase Presents.

But there are things I liked. I liked the new Brave ang Bold series. I liked the new Captain Comet (and his whole world/sattelite).

The Punisher would not work if he was "America's Vigilante", the idol of millions, someone for boys to aspire to. He needs a grim and gritty style. Superman would not work as the dark fist of justice in the night. I understand that DC made a lot of their '60s SF characters into grim, gritty, shadows of themselves- and where are they now? (Well, Star Hawkins got killed in the Captain Comet series, but since he was out of his own time, it doesn't necessarily matter.)

Grim and gritty do have their place: vigilante types, some detective types, some aspects of other characters such as, say Conan and Captain America. Light and easy have their place: patriotic types, overgrown boy scout types (not that there is anything wrong with them), most teenage supers.

In my Champions campaign there was a pulp-style vigilante/detective and a Superman type. It took awhile, but they gradually came to repsect each other. There were things the Super-type did not know how to handle, and he would ask the viglante for help. Then, therr were times that the vigilante needed a little muscle (of the More Powerful Than A Locomotive type).

Maybe it's that, after fighting for so long to be taken seriously again (comics were not originally just for kids), they are being taken too seriously.

Oh, one change I would make to a particular hero: ban the term "diety-cursed" (Original term was censored) from all Batman comics.

[Previsionary]

I aggree, except on Captain Marvel. He is basically a child in an adult body, and I persist in thinking that childhood is a time of innocence.

I'm afraid that the only comics I can share with my granddaughter these days are The Essentials and Showcase Presents.

Statements like this is why I went out of my way to promote and review books that could have been put in kids' hands for over 2 years in the comics forum. It's also why I dedicate site space to my "Highlight On" feature on FRP because making such comments in a general manner is like kicking sand on those creators who DO put out things that can be read and enjoyed by all. Readers, disgruntled and otherwise, not grabbing those books is why they do not last and why the big comic companies avoid them as much as they can.

[daglob]

No disrespect is meant to those who do try and produce family friendly fare. It's just a venting of the frustration I feel. I probably should have said that "Sometimes I'm afraid".

As annoyed as you may feel about my comment, it is probably nothing compared to my annoyance at the present state of the medium. When my daughter was growing up, I could buy her all sorts from stuff from Harvey, Gladstone, Archie, even Marvel. I haven't gotten comics in a couple of years (do I buy comics, or pay the power bill?), but there was little suitable for a young child last time I looked. I read Fox and Crow, Jerry Lewis, Bob Hope, and scores of cartoon character comics from Dell (later Gold Key) and Harvey. Then there was Archie, maybe the only one left.

I keep hoping things will change for the better.

[Tawodi Osdi]

The problem is that for comics to change to the better society has to change for the better, and for the most part, people do not have the same values today as some of us older fans.  I think current society is just too jaded for the things we like.