Everybody's Favorite Mutated Reptiles Are Back in Action

[HarryTrotter]

I really lost interest,since it basically became "Jennika,guest starring the TMNT". Turtles basically did nothing for 16 issue while we followed Jennika setting up a soup kitchen and gathering a band and Mona Lisa trying to impeach Hob. All this is keeping us from the actual interesting stuff that we are invested in,like Shredder, LeatherKrang and Burrnow Island.
Btw,that battle of the band is just the most pointless bet ever. If Jennika wins,Bebop and Rocksteady have to leave Mutant Town. Why would they honor that and how do you enforce that? And if they win,they get to own a bar. What's the downside of giving them a ruin in a walled off part of NY? Literally,the FW cartoon had bigger stakes.

[BentonGrey]

Well, to be fair, getting super (and irrationally) invested in a battle of the bands seems very in character for Bebop and Rocksteady...

[HarryTrotter]

We were building towards this battle of the bands for 16 issues. 16. And we are supposed to care if Bebop and Rocksteady win a bar in a quarantined zone?
Unless there is some sort of course correction,I don't really see this title lasting for much longer. And when it gets unceremoniously canceled,like every TMNT title to date, it's going to suck because I was invested in this continuity for years.
It's even weirder when you account that Last Ronin is IDWs best selling book EVER. You would think they would draw some conclusions about what the fans want from their Ninja Turtles. And it's not battles of the bands or Jennikas soup kitchen. Clearly,since the main title went from 12k to 10k in sales last time we saw any numbers.

[BentonGrey]

Well, hopefully we'll see a course correction.  It's been so fantastic for so long, I'm willing to ride out a rough patch.  I rode out a much rougher patch for Aquaman, only to have them cancel the book on me, the jerks. 

[HarryTrotter]

Idk,I hope we will eventually get to the actual story we cared about for years,but Im not that optimistic. I think IDW is taking this very ideologically,and that they would rather see it fade away then give the fans what they want.

[Silver Shocker]

I may have said this before, but I think a lot of this has to do with the writers. Tom Waltz and Kevin Eastman were the guys up to 100. Sophie Campbell took over the book's writing after that. I've always liked Campbell's art, but writing wise, it absolutely feels like when a different writer takes over a book and the direction and style changes noticeably. This happened in the minis often, but this is the main book.

It also reminds me a lot of the farm arc. Particularly in Mirage continuity where the farm arc was an enormous filler arc filled to the absolute gills with fill in stories by different creative teams that looked and felt completely different in tone, approach and direction (also when I fell out of the Mirage run, as it happens). This is bit like that. Not nearly as aimless, but still noticeably someone else's work.

Well, to be fair, getting super (and irrationally) invested in a battle of the bands seems very in character for Bebop and Rocksteady...

Generally that's true, but the IDW versions of Bebop and Rocksteady were previously depicted as violent and sadistic, and I've found they've been much less dangerous in the years since they took great glee in almost murdering poor Donnie. Such as the Jennika mini I mentioned earlier. Even before Donnie they were introduced with Karai sending them out to settle a crime turf war by themselves and their battle with the TMNT and the Mutanimals resulted in them leveling a building and the TMNT and Mutanimals not actually being able to beat them in a straight fight.

[BentonGrey]

You know, somehow I didn't realize that Waltz had left the book.  Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. 

As for Bebop and Rocksteady, while they've been fairly violent in the IDW version, they haven't been motivated primarily by violence.  They are out to have fun, primarily, and one of the ways they do that is by beating the heck out of things.  But they also have other motivations, which we get to see in some of their minis.  And those are a lot of fun.

[Silver Shocker]

And those are a lot of fun.

While all of that is true, those were also a lot more fun than Mutant Town. Bebop and Rocksteady being used poorly, or more poorly in recently stories, can be an example of the growing frustration with this era of the book.

I finally finished the newest trade the other night, and it's not a big improvement, but there is a little bit a liked. Baxter and April, mostly, Karai's good for the one scene she's in, and we do get the 5 turtles teaming up, which was alright. Mikey also claims his use of humor is a coping mechanism, which normally I don't know if I'd buy, but given what they've been through lately, I can actually buy in the context of this book.

But it says a lot that the cover used for the trade doesn't feature the TMNT at all, and they're not on the back cover either. It's the little mutant kids. Every other main cover for the issues in the trade has them, including one that used the Slithery, the mutant creature the arc heavily revolved around, but they chose them.

Speaking of which, the trades are once again leaving out the annuals. Which is absolutely inexcusable considering ALL of the interesting villain plots (not counting Stockman and Karai bringing in Tokka and Rahzar) are in the annual. It's right on the cover. I'll have to get it digital in order to read it. They'll pad out the Jennika trade with old material, but they'll leave out a plot important annual that's been out for almost a year. The book was delayed by a month because of Covid, but it's apparently not included in the next trade either.

[HarryTrotter]

#117 So this hyped up Battle of the bands lasts for roughly 3 pages and ends with Bebop and Rocksteady going "You guys are good,we can't win" and quit. What the hell was the actual point of any of this? You build up this stupid thing for several issues only for the bad guys to quit without even trying? I mean,the idea of a musical showdown in a comic book is stupid to begin with,but at least commit to it,if you hyped it up. And speaking of pointless plots,we are back to trying to impeach Old Hob. Oh gods,they are still sticking to this immediately dated plot. During this whole run,Hob did slightly more then Ninja Turtles,so why should we be invested in him staying the boss of Furrytown?

[BentonGrey]

 

[HarryTrotter]

It's like Im in an abusive relationship with this comic...why do I keep coming back to this?
Anyway... pacing is still horrible. There are 2 issues focusing in Sally Pride starting a protest against Hob. Jayzus K Tana,who cares? Also,April discovers Stockman is doing something evil and Weasel Kids kill somebody. Turtles are barely around and do nothing. Oh yeah,Mikey has a podcast still.

[BentonGrey]

You know, HT, I've got half a dozen issues sitting on my shelf...ha, and your descriptions have really killed my drive to read them!    This is disappointing.

[HarryTrotter]

You are not really losing anything by reading them. Not gaining anything either. Unless you're a big fan of Jennika and Sally Pride.
But...there is a tease for a big Pantheon event and the return of Tom Waltz starting from 2021 Annual. So Im kinda hoping that will be better then this.

[Silver Shocker]

Yeah, the ones I read didn't actually get my Turtle Van/Battle Shell revved up. And the next two trades don't come out until Sept. and Oct. And I'm stubbornly putting off reading Batman/TMNT Vol. 3 until I finish Crisis because it's heavily based on it.

Thank goodness for Transformers Beast Wars. But I still miss Ghostbusters.

But...there is a tease for a big Pantheon event and the return of Tom Waltz starting from 2021 Annual. So Im kinda hoping that will be better then this.

See that I want to read. But first I gotta catch a Comixology sale so I can finally my hot little mits on that annual. *sigh* which isn't included in the next trade.

[HarryTrotter]

It's not out yet; I believe it should be out this week or the next one. The 2021 annual,that is.

[Silver Shocker]

Indeed. I done slipped out. It's the 2020 Annual, which is even worse.
my theory - and I hope this is what IDW is going for - is they'll reprint that Annual when it's actually relevant to the main book. I still vehementally disagree with the notion, since I've been waiting to read that thing while slogging through the filler saga. But there is an arguement to made for it. But I don't trust them after they left out 2 annuals prior that were important to the plot but padded out a 3 issue mini with the Mirage Fugitoid one-shot and padded out the Jennika 3-issue mini with reprints of older stories.

I did look at the cover for the new annual, which does look epic.

[HarryTrotter]

So the annual is out and it certainly promising. Thou it's mostly Rat King talking about visiting his siblings. You can guess who he is talking to and where he is going with that from the start,but it's actually setting up things we want to see. Like,we are back to the actual plot,just in the aftermath of #100. Kinda hyped,not gonna lie.

[BentonGrey]

Alright, I finally read #109-116, and your frustration with them is pretty darn justified, HT.  All of this seems so...juvenile.  It feels like one of my female freshmen would write, focused on relationships, but without a clear sense of purpose and without nuance or coherence of thought.  There are a lot of cool ideas here, tons in fact, but they're jumbled together and poorly explored, with lots of characters acting stupidly for extra DRAMA and ANGST, despite how silly it all is. 

Spoiler

Mona Lisa screaming at Mikey because he is choosing to go help his family protect the town from rampaging monsters rather than make signs for a protest is probably the dumbest thing I've ever seen in this book.  And in general, all this focus on protests and politics feels like a very immature attempt at topicality, and it just doesn't work in context.  First of all, why in the freaking world is it only this far into the whole mess that someone has said, 'hey, you know what, being turned into an inhuman monster against my will was sorta' uncool, I'm slightly miffed at Hob, the mutant terrorist who did this to me and uncounted others, including children.'  That seems like it probably should have been, I don't know, the first, and a rather universal, reaction.  Everyone has been surprisingly enthusiastic and chill about being turned into mutants. 

Like I said, there's a ton of cool stuff here, but it's drowning in B and C material.  Most of these plotlines and characters would really be better off relegated to some type of spin-off title dedicated to the life and culture of Mutant Town.  It just doesn't really fit with this book and its focus and themes.  Despite that, the idea of Lita coming back from the future, stealing the time scepter from Renet (fun!), and all of that is really cool.  The idea of a battle of the mutant bands is also really awesome, but it's something that should be a one or two issue absurdist jaunt, not a super-serious focus of the entire arc.  It was cool to see Bebop and Rocksteady take on their alter-egos, after a fashion.  I'm actually mildly tempted to put Tokah and Razor into my TMNT mod just for that kind of matchup. 

You know, it's always cool to have an issue or two of downtime, where you see the characters going about their lives, healing, and developing relationships, and that is a staple of the TMNT books.  But you've got a problem when that becomes the only thing you do for issue after issue after issue.  And there is SO MUCH MELODRAMA!  Everyone is navel-gazing and emoting and talking about how terrible their lives are, and it grates after a while.

On a related note, Jennika, who was a really cool character that I thoroughly enjoyed while she was human, is now basically unrecognizable in more ways than one and not nearly as interesting.  I had my doubts about her becoming a fifth Turtle, as I felt it messed up the dynamic, but that might have been okay if they had managed to keep her interesting and compelling.  I really just have zero interest in what they're doing with her though, other than brief moments of light in her interactions with Karai.

So, this is all a terrible shame, as the Turtles book has routinely been fantastic and among my favorite comics.  If Tom Waltz wasn't coming back soon, I'd probably drop it because it's just not really been worth reading for a big stretch.

[Silver Shocker]

Nice to know we're not the only ones underwhelmed by the Mutant Town arc, Benton. The last trade of the main book I got stops at 11 and the next one isn't out until Oct, so you guys are both ahead of me. It feels like either the filler saga or a wholly different book/run. Also I specifically looked for the 2020 annual at the comic book store on FCBD as I would have picked it up if it was there as it would have been discounted. I'm hoping it'll be reprinted when they get to the new Waltz stories. Otherwise I'll get it digital on sale at some point.

I do indeed agree about Jennika. I gave my thoughts on her as a character much earlier in this thread. And her first mini. Second one's released Sept 7. I'll probably get it because I get all of them, but these ones are putting my dedication to the test. The first one was a ok-ish 3-issue filler story with reprinted short stories padding out the trade, and the second one....eh I'll see.

[BentonGrey]

Haha, nope SS, definitely not alone.  I imagine we can't be the only ones to think this either.

Yeah, Jennika may be the biggest disappointment of all.  She was such a cool character, one of my favorite additions to that excellent last set of arcs, and now I just can't care about her.

[HarryTrotter]

Last 2-3 issues had letters from readers critical of the current direction. And if they actually bothered to publish them,there has to be a lot of those. Editors answer is that their sales have never been higher. I would love to see some numbers there.
And Jennika is,no kidding, writers DeviantArt turtle OC. Which explains why this is Jennika - sometimes starring the TMNT.
It sucks that Im invested in this comic. It was the first TMNT comic I actually followed month to month.

[Silver Shocker]

Last 2-3 issues had letters from readers critical of the current direction. And if they actually bothered to publish them,there has to be a lot of those. Editors answer is that their sales have never been higher. I would love to see some numbers there.

That came up a lot with Amazing Spider-Man post OMD and we've discussed comics sales in the past and it's dubious because there are a lot of different factors. Digital sales, trade sales, those Loot Crate things, ect.

Plus sales doesn't mean people like it or love it. I buy all the trades and I don't love Mutant Town.

And Jennika is,no kidding, writers DeviantArt turtle OC. Which explains why this is Jennika - sometimes starring the TMNT.

As me and Benton both said, she was a ok character who just doesn't have a good enough team dynamic with the TMNT. As bad as the writing on Next Mutation was, it had plenty of content featuring Venus playing off the other Turtles.

Now, to be fair, I've read that the artist who designed Jenny designed her knowing full well she'd be the 5th turtle, and I can buy that. For me I'd say it's an example of a good (or ok) character used poorly, and I see a lot of examples of that in tv shows and movies and such. I've also seen what I consider bad characters used well.

Yes, it is a shame. I really liked Shredder in Hell, and while City at War (the arc that ended with #100) was really long, it was also really good. And most of that went nowhere for the entirety of Mutant Town.

[HarryTrotter]

Well,the last sales numbers are from the early 100's (before the disease that shall go unmentioned) and even then it was doing around 15k. So Idk, I'm not buying the "doing better then ever" part.And iDW is not shy with Last Ronin numbers,so are they hiding something with the ongoing?

[BentonGrey]

Yeah, I find that about sales rather surprising and hard to believe, but your point is a good one, SS.  Just because people like us haven't dropped the book doesn't mean that they like what is going on in it.  Heck, I stuck with Aquaman through two bad runs.  This run did come off long string of great runs, and people are pretty heavily invested in this book after a hundred+ issues.

SS, yeah, Shredder in Hell was really great!  That one surprised the heck out of me.  This is, undoubtedly, the best version of Shredder ever.  He's darn compelling.

I'd go stronger than that on Jennika.  She was better than okay; she was pretty great...as a supporting character.  But she doesn't interest me as a protagonist, especially in turtle form.

HT, I think it's a little unfair to say that it's the Jennika show.  After all, each of the Turtles got various focus stories over the course of this run.  It just feels more egregious because she's plot-central in the battle of the bands nonsense and because it feels inordinate because she doesn't really feel like she belongs center stage in the first place. 

[Silver Shocker]

SS, yeah, Shredder in Hell was really great!  That one surprised the heck out of me.  This is, undoubtedly, the best version of Shredder ever.  He's darn compelling.

Agreed. And you know how defensive I get about the 2003. I never knew I needed a Shredder face turn in my life....so of course he doesn't appear in the main book again for years. 

HT, I think it's a little unfair to say that it's the Jennika show.  After all, each of the Turtles got various focus stories over the course of this run.  It just feels more egregious because she's plot-central in the battle of the bands nonsense and because it feels inordinate because she doesn't really feel like she belongs center stage in the first place.

It also doesn't help that she has two minis all to herself. I don't hate the book right now, but it feels a bit like the played-out-as-hell farm arc minus the farm. 

[BentonGrey]

Except, the farm arc was full of great characterization and not nearly so long and drawn out, ha!  I don't hate the book, but I'm really not enjoying it, which is a far cry from when this book was routinely one of the best comics I read in a year.

Well, I'm actually okay with Shredder not being around for a good while.  I'm not sure what else they can do with him...though, actually, now that I think about it, I think there's great potential for a Magneto/X-Men turn now that Splinter is dead.  I think that could be sort of amazing, actually....

[Silver Shocker]

Except, the farm arc was full of great characterization and not nearly so long and drawn out, ha! 

Depends on which version of the farm arc you're talking about. They've done it in a few different iterations of TMNT. Some did it much, much better than others (cough 2012)

[SickAlice]

Same beat it here. Not a love nor hate thing rather it's in so many oddball directions it's hard to connect to it. Also I actually like the new characters like Jennika myself. I think she's a well met character though I think higher of some of the other new faces but at the same time between all them I feel they're detracting a lot from the Turtles themselves emotionally and with development. Granted I'm an ubernerd when it comes to the Turtles, coming of age stuff and what not so it can go low and there's that fond nostalgia. Though as above *cough as well* there have been some runs that were just indigestible.

[BentonGrey]

Yeah, SA, there are several new characters I like too.  Like I said, I even like(d) Jennikia, though I really don't think they've done much good with her since she got mutated. 

[SickAlice]

I think it's fine stuff but they made a niche and well, they have to fill the niche. Niche is of course she becomes a mutant and then the focus is on how she feels about it. Niche's are of course a double edged sword in writing, they tend to lock you off from expanding on a character and that's what I feel with this. But more that focus on any number of umpteen new characters and a detraction from focus on the main characters, the four Turtles in this case whom I read the books for. Like I don't mind the side series for characters like her and else but when they become the focal point of the series and it seems anyone from her to pig punk girl or cute as button weasel has it loses my interest a bit. I read this series of course and followed the exploits of these four brothers and continue to see what developments happen for them next. But it seems like they've been relegated to backdrop and I don't like that. An alternative The Last Ronin does the service of focusing directly on the mains and where live as taken them. I'd like to read more of a vibe like that from the main series. So like if they want to expand to these characters sure thing but make a separate book for that, Mutant Town or whatever title sells. I mean I'll say I don't care about the little weasel characters but they're two dimensional so there isn't much to care about. That type of character is meant to act as a prop, comedy relief. So not be the stories focus. Then it goes onto whichever fresh character has been introduced, I can't keep up at this point and away from the mains like the Turtles, April, Casey (he has cameos now you know?). I just don't dig it. I get being stuck in a writing rut but I also know about creating one via bad form. Not a big knock though either, this stuff is still well written and some of the better out there. Though when it comes to IDW I'll put those Transformers books above it. I had no interest in reading those at all, just sort of impulse buy one day and the characterization and dialogue alone is worth the ticket price.