Tomato: Airman No More!

[Tomato]

So, a good portion of the board might well remember that almost two years go I made the oath to serve the US Air Force. Some fewer number might also remember that I was having issues with my PT test. Well, long story short, I passed with over an 80%, and was well on my way to graduating. I say was, because the day before my block I mysteriously got a room inspection that I "failed", bringing the total fails in the year and a half I've been here to 4 and putting me up for another article 15

I'm not going to mince words here, I'm being railroaded and I know it. I also know that since I have been in the military I have been through so much stress and pressure that I have been considering seeing a psychiatrist for depression. I have, at my lowest point, considered suicide.

You all know me. You know I'm not that guy. The sheer fact that I got to that point is beyond my comprehension. But I still fought to stay in, to get through my 4 years to get my benefits. But this on top of it... I'm done. I'm not fighting them on it this time, I'm getting out and all these dicks can go to hell. About the only fighting I'm going to do is make sure I see a lawyer to get what I'm owed.

I ask for your prayers and such going forward. I'm going to see what my options are once I get out, maybe go a semester on and a semestre off while working whatever crap job I can get in this economy.

[lugaru]

Im one of those "respect the troops, %#(% the war" people so there is a part of me that is a little bit relieved that you are getting out of a system that is known to mistreat soliders both in and out of service. As far as seeking help goes, do it. At best it can save your life, and if it turns out you dont really need "a therapist" at least you get a few weeks of interesting conversations out of it (like I did).

I'm not going to mince words, the economy is awful right now (Ok, I am mincing words because it is a family forum). That said it is still america, oportunities are still there. Personally I'm an uneducated foreigner but I keep finding spaces to fit into. I'm sure a great guy like you will find oportunities to serve your country as a civilian, which can be extremely rewarding. Lastly I'm a "socialist" so I advise you to seek any goverment assistance you can, especially with school, I dont mind paying taxes so Tomato can excell.

[Glitch Girl]

Tomato, I'm sorry your whole experience has been... very very bad.  I agree with Luragu that a therapist is a good idea though I can't speak from experience. 

I'll say a prayer for you tonight that maybe this is the universe's way of saying it's got something better in mind for you.

[detourne_me]

So you're being railroaded for inconsequential stuff?  yeesh. 
So you're not meant to be a flyboy. Sorry Tomato,  however i'm wondering if there is a way you could pull through it... the vet benefits might be worth it.....
I really don't know though dude, i have the same mentality as Lugaru when it comes to respecting the troops,  but it really becomes hard to respect the organization itself by the way how it mistreats, denies justice, and abuses it's own members.
then....as you said... the economy.... it's probably the only thing keeping me from going back home to canada at this point in my life.

[The Hitman]

Yikes. That is a hell of a situation you were in. Y'know, I've always said that everything happens for a reason... and I have no doubt that this stretch of hard times will lead something much, much better for you. I also echo the therapist thing, it probably couldn't hurt.

Hang in there, man. And if you're still in Ohio and need a semi-stranger to vent to, give me a buzz.

[Panther_Gunn]

I mysteriously got a room inspection that I "failed", bringing the total fails in the year and a half I've been here to 4 and putting me up for another article 15

In the grand scheme of things, 4 room inspection failures in 18 months should not be that big of a deal, and an Article 15 sounds excessive.  I don't know what you got the first one for (I would presume it was connected with the PT test, since they tend to be a bit *-retentive with that almost no matter where you go), but unless you got more than two of those failures in a row recently, it's almost the same level as being told you need a haircut or your boots shined the same amount of times in the same time frame.  There needs to be a documented pattern shown, and I think it needs to be a reasonable progression of counseling.  Verbal, LOC, LOR, and *then* consideration for an Article 15, but really, there should be a couple of steps in between, unless someone is *trying* to get you kicked out.

Being under the microscope sucks, and almost the only way to get away from it with some people/commands is to PCS.  If you truly feel that you're being dealt with unfairly, get your copy of the documentation together and talk with someone in Legal.  It's not unknown for supervisors to be a little tunnel-vision and overzealous in regards to someone they think is a bad troop, and what NCO's (especially SNCO's) say to the Commander / First Sergeant tend to hold more weight than what you respond with. 

I'm hoping that your pending graduation will be your final graduation from Tech School, and you can move on to a regular base (AETC bases tend to get a little wound around themselves at times).  Disciplinary actions that occurred during Tech School generally don't hold as much weight after you get to your first base, depending on the severity of course, but it *has* been a while since I graduated, or had any new Airmen that worked for me.

Unfortunately, if this is just another Block graduation, or you're already at your first base (and I missed that somehow) and you're talking about finishing your CDC's, there really isn't a transition to look forward to, and my previous comment about PCS'ing is still valid.  As a first termer, you don't have a whole lot of options to PCS out of a base, not without volunteering for a Remote assignment (sometimes not really a remedy, more like telling someone to start hitting you in the leg with a baseball bat, because your arm is starting to hurt from all of the times they've already hit you there).

All in all, it wouldn't hurt you to at least talk with Legal, to get another opinion/perspective on the whole deal.  They may be able to help, or they may just give you an insight you didn't already have, and it may help you make a better (or at least better informed) decision.

[Tomato]

I mysteriously got a room inspection that I "failed", bringing the total fails in the year and a half I've been here to 4 and putting me up for another article 15

In the grand scheme of things, 4 room inspection failures in 18 months should not be that big of a deal, and an Article 15 sounds excessive.  I don't know what you got the first one for (I would presume it was connected with the PT test, since they tend to be a bit *-retentive with that almost no matter where you go), but unless you got more than two of those failures in a row recently, it's almost the same level as being told you need a haircut or your boots shined the same amount of times in the same time frame.  There needs to be a documented pattern shown, and I think it needs to be a reasonable progression of counseling.  Verbal, LOC, LOR, and *then* consideration for an Article 15, but really, there should be a couple of steps in between, unless someone is *trying* to get you kicked out.

Being under the microscope sucks, and almost the only way to get away from it with some people/commands is to PCS.  If you truly feel that you're being dealt with unfairly, get your copy of the documentation together and talk with someone in Legal.  It's not unknown for supervisors to be a little tunnel-vision and overzealous in regards to someone they think is a bad troop, and what NCO's (especially SNCO's) say to the Commander / First Sergeant tend to hold more weight than what you respond with. 

I'm hoping that your pending graduation will be your final graduation from Tech School, and you can move on to a regular base (AETC bases tend to get a little wound around themselves at times).  Disciplinary actions that occurred during Tech School generally don't hold as much weight after you get to your first base, depending on the severity of course, but it *has* been a while since I graduated, or had any new Airmen that worked for me.

Unfortunately, if this is just another Block graduation, or you're already at your first base (and I missed that somehow) and you're talking about finishing your CDC's, there really isn't a transition to look forward to, and my previous comment about PCS'ing is still valid.  As a first termer, you don't have a whole lot of options to PCS out of a base, not without volunteering for a Remote assignment (sometimes not really a remedy, more like telling someone to start hitting you in the leg with a baseball bat, because your arm is starting to hurt from all of the times they've already hit you there).

All in all, it wouldn't hurt you to at least talk with Legal, to get another opinion/perspective on the whole deal.  They may be able to help, or they may just give you an insight you didn't already have, and it may help you make a better (or at least better informed) decision.

First, they DO have a paper trail... I've gotten increased punishments every time I had a room inspection failure. They slapped an article 15 on me with the last one, which coincidentally hit me right before my passing pt test (they'd just done one three days prior that I passed, but apparently they felt the need to do one again day before my pt test... nothing suspect there). It was a slap on the wrist punishment, but an article 15 is an article 15 regardless.

Second, even graduating, I've been dicked around for so long I'm practically guaranteed to be staying at the same base... I had orders cancelled right before this thing came down, and all signs pointed to them more or less trapping me here.

Ever since I more or less decided to accept things and move on, I have had weights lifted off me like you wouldn't believe. As things stand, it sounds like A. I might still be getting the Air Force Certification for my job(my supervisor is trying to sneak it past while I'm still technically in student status), and B. I'm going out the door with the paperwork I need to prepare for the MLT certification exam... something which even now will greatly impact my ability to get a job.

The truth is, I'm not really cut out for it, I've known that for a long time. I'm great at the job itself, but all the military side... I suxxors at it. I barely got through basic training, and I've limped on ever since.

I've gotten a lot out of being in the air force in terms of confidence and strength... but it's time to cut my losses. I am a great Lab tech, but I am a horrible, horrible Airman.

[Cyber Burn]

I hope everything works out in the end 'Mato. If the depression looms, I definitely reccommend seeing someone. As someone who has lots of personal experience in this area, I can't stress enough that you don't want go through it alone.

[cmdrkoenig67]

I regret hearing about this, T...Keep your chin up.  It's certainly not worth ending you life over.  I also suggest finding somebody to be an ear, when you're down (a therapist, family members, friends, FF pals, etc...).

I hope things get better for you soon.

Dana

[Figure Fan]

Geez, that sounds pretty rough, Tomato.

I agree with Panther_Gunn and think that if there's anything left for you to do that can help you make the best decision possible, I would do that. Otherwise, if you've given this your best shot and you don't think it's right for you, then I think it's a good sign that you're able to admit that to yourself. My partner was an Apache pilot for eight years in the army, and he's told me about the bureaucracy/politics that go on behind the scenes. I know that the air force can be even more intense and competitive. I admire your staying power, even if it's not to the end.

Don't lose hope in the world outside of the military. I know that things seem bleak, but you're a smart/talented guy from what I can tell and I'm sure you'll be okay if things change. Life can be crazy like that, but all you can do is roll with the punches. It's all any of us can do.

Please keep in touch with us on here whenever you get a chance.

[Tomato]

Honestly... Aside from the initial wave of "ZOMG Woe is me," I'm actually less depressed about this whole thing then I have been since I joined. I'm more or less resigned to getting out at this point and having to deal with normal, everyday stressers like "paying for college" and "getting a job," and not having to worry about making rooms inspection-order every day or doing 300 push-ups to hold to some other person's ideal of what "in shape" means, or having someone pull dren behind my back because they think I don't deserve the job I've worked my arse off for. It's just not worth the energy anymore.

I want to also clarify what happened on the suicide thing... first, that was never my thought process here. I DID consider suicide briefly back when I was hip-deep in the PT noise, but the sheer fact that I did so shook me more than anything else. It was more or less rock bottom for me, and as soon as I hit that point part of my brain (the part that comes on here and tears n00bs apart methinks) woke up and went "No, eff you. You did not just think that. I mean, really? Over PT? No. Just... go blow Joe Q or something, I dunno." Honestly, I think that more than anything gave me the drive to finish it... I stopped stressing about the test and just did what I needed to to get it done.

The reason that whole situation has been on my mind of late is that when this all went down, all I could say was "I'm done." Now, what I meant (and couldn't say properly since my brain had exploded) was that I was done with the military nonsense... stressing and fighting over it was just too exhausting and I was done dealing with their BS. Even so, my supervisors were worried I did mean suicide... and given the situation, I can't say I wouldn't be in their shoes. They tasked one of my fellow students to keep an eye on me (which he epically failed to do BTW... I plan on giving him a hard time for it later >D ) and pulled me aside an hour or so after the initial confrontation. I told them quite frankly the worst I was going to do was go back and beat people up in a video game until I got past the initial shock.

Where I'm at right now may not be exactly happy-go-lucky, but I'm not depressed either. Depression is like a poison that's been running through my veins since I joined the military, and I feel like I'm finally extracting it. I'm disappointed I won't get the benefits of being in full-term, but I got a decent paycheck for 2 years in a horrible economy and hopefully I'll have the education I need to move on from this and get a decent job.

[murs47]

I heart you Thomas C. Ato

[Tomato]

Danggit Murs, stop hitting on me. I already told you, I only love ponies.

[Tomato]

Just a mini rant here, just to get it out of my system.

Why is it that everyone in my life keeps nagging at me to fight this!?! I mean really, let's be honest... what's best for me right now is to get out. What I WANT is to get out. And while the benefits of having stayed would be nice, getting out of here with A. Most of a Bachelors degree, and B. MLT certification paperwork which, while not guaranteeing me a job, makes it a heck of a lot easier. Top that off with the fact that I'll likely make MORE money on the outside, have more NORMAL hours, not have to put up with half of the dren I'd deal with even in the most chill of military bases, and actually having my free time be, you know, MY FREE TIME. As it is, I don't even really get off duty time outside of weekends... I'm expected to do PT and clean all other hours of the day.

This isn't me being forced out. This is me being told I was probably, maybe, quite possibly getting another article 15 which would then maybe possibly perhaps mean being kicked out. If I wanted to, I could ride the military for another 6 months to a year, even if it did in fact mean I was getting kicked out. However, I've decided that instead of continually fighting over a job I don't like for benefits I'd like but don't really need, I'm just saying to heck with it. I'd much rather go home, finish my lab degree up, get my certification, and maybe actually have free time to work on FR-related stuff again when it's NOT a weekend.

[chuckles]

All I can say is that I believe you know what is best for you. I support your decision, and wish you all the best with your plans.

Whether you continue in or not, thank you for your military service.

[BentonGrey]

'Mato man, I'm really sorry to hear about all of this.  I've been reading this thread, but haven't had the time to write a response before now.  I had thought and hoped that after the previous bit of drama things had settled down.  I hate that this has taken another turn towards being ugly.  As for folks trying to tell you what's best for you, I think Chuckles put it pretty well.  You're a smart guy, and if you think it isn't worth it to you, I can't think of anyone who would be a better judge of that.  We'll keep you in our prayers, man.