Indigo help needed!

[ghazkul]

Ok people, here's a question for you. If a character hasn't been skinned yet, but you feel that it's only a matter of time until they do, do you just kitbash a skin in the mean time? 

I ask this because I've tried skoping a mesh for Hope Summers....



The cape is bouble layered and can be made see-through by skinning like Podmarks Cassandra Cain Batgirl/Black Bat mesh (used that to show me how to do it).

Now, When I use it I use a skin made up from AA's Speedy2 and Fairchild skins. They work together really well to make Hope (I'll show it if people want to see what I mean).

Do other creators feel annoyed when people do that or not? I don't mind if people want to use or alter my skins when they use them on their own games personally.

[Cyber Burn]

I'd say don't post it unless you decide to skin her from scratch. Unless AA gives specific permission for his work to be kitbashed, I wouldn't do it.

[Tomato]

Here's the thing... if you're posting a skope, and your intent is to show off how the skope could potentially look, then most skinners don't mind if you post images of that hex with a kittbashed skin (provided you release only the hexed mesh) because we know your intent is just to preview how the hex looks, NOT to claim our work or whatever else. The thing is though, you need to confine such posts to the hex editing board, because posting them here will seem like you're claiming the skin as your own.

Basically, it's like the Joker mesh I made. I'd have no issue posting a screenshot of the mesh with its standard in my thread over on the mesh board, because it is my mesh. However, I wouldn't post that same image in my skin thread, because I didn't skin it... TUE did.

[hmarrs]

Ok from the land of ignorance please forgive me but .....
What is Kitbashing I mean I have an idea but.....

[Tomato]

kittbashing is taking any portion of another person skin (from the whole thing to a tiny logo or something) and using it without the permission of the original skinner. It can be anything from inverting the red and blue on a c6 spiderman, adding new faces to a skin because the original was bland, stealing armbands off a green arrow because you're too lazy to make your own, that sort of thing.

Basically, it all just goes back to common sense: You wouldn't copy the Mona Lise, paint the hair blond, and call it your own painting: It's disrespectful to the original artist's work. The boundaries start to blur when it comes to Mods and Skopes: For skopes, you're allowed to preview the skope with a kittbashed skin, but generally you're not allowed to release it (your intent is to show off the skope, not the kittbashed skin). For mods... well, I can't speak for everyone, but I usually don't have a problem with someone kittbashing my work for the purposes of a mod, because I don't really expect modders to be skinners. That said, I do expect to be asked first.

[Bloodshadow]

If it will help you,you can send your skope to me and I'll skin her.I've been wanting to do Hope anyway,just let me know what you decide.

[Tomato]

Psst... look at the date on the original post bloodshadow. Hmarrs performed necromancy to ask his question.

[Bloodshadow]

Thanks Tomato,guess I should have looked at that before I posted,oh well,Just trying to help.

[ghazkul]

Braaiiinnnsssss...... Seeennnntttt.....

[hmarrs]

kittbashing is taking any portion of another person skin (from the whole thing to a tiny logo or something) and using it without the permission of the original skinner. It can be anything from inverting the red and blue on a c6 spiderman, adding new faces to a skin because the original was bland, stealing armbands off a green arrow because you're too lazy to make your own, that sort of thing.

Basically, it all just goes back to common sense: You wouldn't copy the Mona Lise, paint the hair blond, and call it your own painting: It's disrespectful to the original artist's work. The boundaries start to blur when it comes to Mods and Skopes: For skopes, you're allowed to preview the skope with a kittbashed skin, but generally you're not allowed to release it (your intent is to show off the skope, not the kittbashed skin). For mods... well, I can't speak for everyone, but I usually don't have a problem with someone kittbashing my work for the purposes of a mod, because I don't really expect modders to be skinners. That said, I do expect to be asked first.

Ok Tomato I got it however here's my question what if  the same thing is being done but to a mesh instead of a skin?
Like tweaking someone's mesh because you felt it was bland in Blender or Nifskope you get what i'm saying is that considered Kitbashing???
I mean can it be considered the same thing???
Foegive me I just want to make sure I get it.

[Bloodshadow]

Good to see ya still around Ghaz
I'm off for vacation this week so it shouldn't take long to skin Hope.Nice job on the necromancy Hmarrs

[bearded]

Ok Tomato I got it however here's my question what if  the same thing is being done but to a mesh instead of a skin?
Like tweaking someone's mesh because you felt it was bland in Blender or Nifskope you get what i'm saying is that considered Kitbashing???
I mean can it be considered the same thing???
Foegive me I just want to make sure I get it.

it's not considered kitbashing, it is called nifskoping or hexing, and there is a permission list. most meshers don't mind, a few do. and calling someone's mesh bland is called rude. ha!
and i hope bloodshadow is inspired to really make a hope skin! one can hope.

[Tomato]

*stabs bearded and shoves him in a shed somewhere* just... ugh, ignore him, he apparently didn't read the full question before responding (for shame bearded, for shame!) otherwise he wouldn't have equated editing a mesh with Nifskope to making modifications in Blender. 

Mk, so, here's the skinny: Yes, Bearded is right about nifskope and there being a pre-existing permission list. However, that list is only for meshes edited in Nifskope or another hexing program. Editing a mesh with an actual meshing program, like Blender, is a bit different... I'm not saying that 70-90% of the people on that list wouldn't be fine with someone editing their meshes that way, but it's not something you can take for granted either. Better to be safe and make sure you have permission to make your edits BEFORE someone gets ticked, if that makes sense.

On the whole, meshers tend to be a lot more lax when it comes to "kittbashing/art theft." It's mostly just a different mentality... for a skinner, it's generally about artistic expression and your personal sense of style, but for a mesher, it's more about bringing a character to life than it is showcasing your personal style.

To put it another way, skinners are like painters and meshers are like furniture makers. Both groups are clearly artisans, but a furniture maker is just as concerned about making the chair functional as he is about making it visually pleasing.

[bearded]

actually i didn't understand the difference. nifskope or blender? isn't that sort of the same thing?

[Tomato]

Blender is like 3DS Max. It's an actual meshing program, whereas nifskope is more or less a highly advanced hex editor.

[hmarrs]

Got it to be safe ill just make sure by going through the proper channels.
And no bearded I would never anyone's work bland it was in rederance to the question.
Thank you guys
Now about the necromancy how is......???

[Tomato]

Thread necromancy is posting something irrelevant in a "dead" thread, or one that hasn't had a new post in a long period of time (like posting "ZOMG good skin" in AA's thread). It's generally considered bad manners because it makes everyone think a thread is active when it really isn't.

In this case though, the question was relevant to the discussion of the thread, so it's not a big deal. Only reason I even used the term was to let Bloodshadow know that the Hope issue had been settled already.

[bearded]

i know what blender is, i don't understand why it would be considered different to use blender.
is there a hope skin/skope?

[Tomato]

Because the permission was given specifically for nifskope and other hexing tools, not for meshing programs. It's somewhat hard for me to give a definative reason for why someone might get upset from a blender edit when they're fine with a nifskope one because I personally don't care about either, but certain meshers were iffy just about nifskope edits and I can kind of see how an actual mesh edit is a step up from that.

End of the day, I'd rather him ask the 90% on the list that, like you and I, don't care about that sort of editing than I would him NOT ask the ONE person who might get upset over it.

[hmarrs]

Thread necromancy is posting something irrelevant in a "dead" thread, or one that hasn't had a new post in a long period of time (like posting "ZOMG good skin" in AA's thread). It's generally considered bad manners because it makes everyone think a thread is active when it really isn't.

In this case though, the question was relevant to the discussion of the thread, so it's not a big deal. Only reason I even used the term was to let Bloodshadow know that the Hope issue had been settled already.

Ok,ok I get it.
However there are times when I don't get to a thread or lets say I'm looking for some info on a Mesh or Skin then I find
one with an awesome pic of a mesh or skin.
Is it still bad manner to then comment?I'm just saying wouldn't the person feel flattered that it came back around?
Cause somtimes I don't even see a thread unless I'm looking for somthing.
Like one time I was trying to figure somthing out and I was linked over to another thread with sound advice.However the link was dead should I just PM the person?
Another time the link was tutorial and it was awesome so I left a post on how awesome it was.
Was that wrong and if so what would be the correct way to post on an old thread???
Not trying to bust chops I just want to make things easier on everyone.

[bearded]

i like to necropost for the same reasons. but the problems mentioned are valid. 2 possible solutions;
1. when necroposting, state in your post that it is. maybe even mention the date of the original or last post.
2. make a new post, but link to the old one you are referencing.
i personally like 1. necroposting appeals to the sense of history, maybe even nolstagia. it generates almost a feeling of continuity.

[deano_ue]

personally i have a real detest about necroposting. mainly because i see a thread that was popular and had a lot of interesting posts but has long fallen out of use repair with 9/10 useless crap that adds nothing new or relevant to the topics conversation

[Tomato]

I guess what makes it annoying for me is when it drags down the other thread around it... say you post in C6's thread, which has been inactive for almost a year, but say... Podmark JUST posted a new skin two hours ago. Chances are C6 isn't around enough even READ whatever platitude you wanted to give him, but the fact that you necro-posted it means Pod's thread gets bumped down the list and is thus harder for other members to notice. Plus, as I stated before, by posting in a thread that's "dead" you're getting up everyone's hopes that there actually will be new content, and then letting them down when there isn't.

If you're going to add something of substance to a thread, as you did in this thread with your question, then obviously we're not going to burn you at the stake or anything. But posting in an inactive thread just to say "U SKIN TEH AWES0M3!" is generally frowned upon, and I highly discourage any member from doing it.

I don't speak for everyone on here, but my ego is resilient enough that I don't need you to resurrect my skin thread to tell me I'm good at what I do. I know I'm good. AA knows he's good. C6 KNOWS he's good. TUE... well, he SHOULD know he's good. He forgets that sometimes, so the rest of us have to smack the self-pity out of him every so often.

[Podmark]

Because the permission was given specifically for nifskope and other hexing tools, not for meshing programs. It's somewhat hard for me to give a definative reason for why someone might get upset from a blender edit when they're fine with a nifskope

Well when you gave permission to one thing, Nifskope, you know what is and isn't possible with it. It's bad form to assume they'd be okay with something new that allows for new possibilities. Why would they specifically not like Blendering? You'd have to ask the individual. I believe I did put a general request for Blender permissions but no one really responded. If any one has a stance let me know and I'll add it to the list.

Plus, as I stated before, by posting in a thread that's "dead" you're getting up everyone's hopes that there actually will be new content, and then letting them down when there isn't.

I definitely know this feeling.

I guess what makes it annoying for me is when it drags down the other thread around it... say you post in C6's thread, which has been inactive for almost a year, but say... Podmark JUST posted a new skin two hours ago.

WHAT?! But I need that praise, I can't live without it. C6 doesn't need it, let his thread fall to the dregs of the forum! 

[Courtnall6]

I guess what makes it annoying for me is when it drags down the other thread around it... say you post in C6's thread, which has been inactive for almost a year, but say... Podmark JUST posted a new skin two hours ago.

WHAT?! But I need that praise, I can't live without it. C6 doesn't need it, let his thread fall to the dregs of the forum! 

Not so fast Poddyboy! I'll have something in the coming weeks to save my thread from falling into oblivion! 

[Podmark]

I guess what makes it annoying for me is when it drags down the other thread around it... say you post in C6's thread, which has been inactive for almost a year, but say... Podmark JUST posted a new skin two hours ago.

WHAT?! But I need that praise, I can't live without it. C6 doesn't need it, let his thread fall to the dregs of the forum! 

Not so fast Poddyboy! I'll have something in the coming weeks to save my thread from falling into oblivion! 

Don't tease me C6, I've been hurt before...

[Courtnall6]

I guess what makes it annoying for me is when it drags down the other thread around it... say you post in C6's thread, which has been inactive for almost a year, but say... Podmark JUST posted a new skin two hours ago.

WHAT?! But I need that praise, I can't live without it. C6 doesn't need it, let his thread fall to the dregs of the forum! 

Not so fast Poddyboy! I'll have something in the coming weeks to save my thread from falling into oblivion! 

Don't tease me C6, I've been hurt before...

It's ironclad this time...I swear!

[hmarrs]

I guess what makes it annoying for me is when it drags down the other thread around it... say you post in C6's thread, which has been inactive for almost a year, but say... Podmark JUST posted a new skin two hours ago. Chances are C6 isn't around enough even READ whatever platitude you wanted to give him, but the fact that you necro-posted it means Pod's thread gets bumped down the list and is thus harder for other members to notice. Plus, as I stated before, by posting in a thread that's "dead" you're getting up everyone's hopes that there actually will be new content, and then letting them down when there isn't.

If you're going to add something of substance to a thread, as you did in this thread with your question, then obviously we're not going to burn you at the stake or anything. But posting in an inactive thread just to say "U SKIN TEH AWES0M3!" is generally frowned upon, and I highly discourage any member from doing it.

I don't speak for everyone on here, but my ego is resilient enough that I don't need you to resurrect my skin thread to tell me I'm good at what I do. I know I'm good. AA knows he's good. C6 KNOWS he's good. TUE... well, he SHOULD know he's good. He forgets that sometimes, so the rest of us have to smack the self-pity out of him every so often.

You know that's actually the best argument I've heard yet.The fact that it may cause a more current post to get bumped down.
I guess we just need to use common sense.
To make sure if we are going to revive a post we need to make it have some new relevence.
As far as a compliment you can always pm someone and comment.
I know ill prabably do that on some issues somtimes it may be to thank someone for a link be it old or new that may have pulled me out of a jam.
Please guys if you catch me on it than call me on it.
I'm not like super sensitive.
The last thing I want is to be a weak link.I may get annoying with my questions but I have nothing but the utmost respect for you guys and all of your hard work you guys do for no pay but just for the love of the game.

[Outcast]

Not so fast Poddyboy! I'll have something in the coming weeks to save my thread from falling into oblivion! 

Any clues on the which characters those would be? 

[Cyber Burn]

Not so fast Poddyboy! I'll have something in the coming weeks to save my thread from falling into oblivion! 

Any clues on the which characters those would be? 

All this teasing is going to leave me with deep, emotional scars.