Meshing questions

[davy jones]

I want to start meshing. Is there a walkthrough/guide?

I know how to make models, I don't know if mirroring works, and how keyframes work.

Can I use Gmax? 3dsMax?

How do I bone?

How do I add objects (weapons, capes) to characters?

Am I allowed to mirror?

What's the poly limit? Which poly number is considered to high (causes freezes, crashes, lower framerate)?

[TonmaFan]

1) 3)This is my personal bookmark collection, related to meshing in general:
Basic Meshing with Blender
Static meshing using GMax
Meshing Tutorial w/ Blender (focuses on importing models from other games)
Tips and Tricks Reborn
Tips and Tricks
Rigging using 3ds MAX 5.1 and CS 4.0
Grenadier's Animation Notes Tutorial

5) Someone please make a tutorial on this.

7) From the FF1 documentation:

The number of triangles used per character varies from 900 to 2000.  In Freedom Force it is best not to model any character above 2000 faces, as greater numbers of triangles will slow down the engine.

You can experiment with the MAX files provided by Irrational and check the results in Ctool to see just how things work.

[davy jones]

thank you.

Also, I get sort of "Missing DLL" error in 3ds.

Does that affect my mesh in any way?

[Vertex]

It's been ages but I really think you're getting the missing DLL errors because you haven't installed the exporter for FF or the other tools you need to mesh for this game from 3ds max. On the official site there "was" a guide for art processes and if I'm not mistaken there's also a tutorial in the art documentation that installs with the game in the same folder you access the game from. As far as making objects you create appear and disappear during specific animations that's scaling up and down while animating. It's not complicated but will give you a fit probably the first time.

[davy jones]

I figured how to scale objects during animation. I never knew it works that way.

However I don't know how to add objects that would actually appear in game.

As for the exporter, it won't see my version of 3ds for no reason. Any advice?

EDIT: Also Vertex, do you know anything on making the meshes transparent?

[Previsionary]

FF only uses 3ds max 3, 4, and 5. FFvTTR only uses 3ds Max 4 and 5. If you do not have those versions, then you'll be pretty limited in what you can export.

[davy jones]

So exporting a model with a animated weapon to it will attach the weapon to it (or detail)? And keyframes are exported separately.

Also is there a copy of early 3dsMax I can get?

[Vertex]

"linking" objects is handled just that way in max ... as in you use the linking tool on the toolbar to link any object to the bone you want it to follow and voila it's linked... making objects able to be transparent can be done a couple of ways honestly if you want ... "adjustable" transparency just use a skin that already has a alpha layer on it ON the model when meshing and export it normally... the material settings already on a FF model work fine. If you want a "semi" transparent object you should use BLINN settings instead of standard and you get a see through glass like substance that works for that effect.

[davy jones]

So setting the mesh on Blinn instead of Anisotropic will render it transparent? It doesn't show transparent in 3ds, will it show ingame?
I can't make transparent TGAs for some reason. The alpha layer appears white no matter what. (Could someone upload somehow a aplha layer tga?)

Also can I export models in 3dsmax 2010? Do plugins work?


Also, on animating, are they already coded in the mesh, or do I have to code them myself? Because I want to start from zero. How many frames do animations usually have?

[Vertex]

the exporters for Freedom Force only work with 3ds max 3 4 or 5 no later version of max will work for this game.. sorry game is just that old 
animations are in the bones.. after all they are what you are animating, and if you wanted to remove all anims and start from scratch easy enough.. just delete those animations in the trackview.  I have NO idea what that other type you described is.. but blinn does show up IN max as transparent (partial) As far as how to make a alpha layer.. I can't skin to save my life wish I could but I have NO talent for it. I'm sure one of these wonderful people can answer that for you in the skins department.

EDIT: animation types are shown easy enough to figure out.. I assume you have the models given by irrational and I really do think there's a list of all anims and how long they are on average out there... maybe made by Jik long ago?? One thing to point out.. the game PENALIZES you for shorter anims through higher point cost for powers.. so going on the slow side for a anim does make a power cost less... just saying.

[davy jones]

But is there any copy of 3ds to download?

I have 3dsmax 5.1 but meshes show up broken, the ones I haven't made myself that is.


By the way, what plugin does 3dsmax use to export the meshes?

[Vertex]

PLEASE read the help section in the freedom force folder you installed with game. In that is most things you will need to get started.. including the exporter you need to install and the other file s like the character tool and unwrap tool as well. there are there already on your computer and simply need to be copied to the appropriate place in your max installation.

[Previsionary]

PLEASE read the help section in the freedom force folder you installed with game. In that is most things you will need to get started.. including the exporter you need to install and the other file s like the character tool and unwrap tool as well. there are there already on your computer and simply need to be copied to the appropriate place in your max installation.

Co-sign. In fact, I co-sign so much that it's pretty much what I told you in your OTHER thread. Show some initiative and read the stuff already available to you. Don't abuse a good thing (or person) when they're willing to help, but do SOME of the leg work yourself, especially when that leg work includes checking out things readily obtainable to you.

[davy jones]

Well, I'm having an issue here.

I managed to get 3ds max and convert the mesh and all.

The problem is, when I try to export to .nif, 3ds just crashes...

Is there a 3ds max 4 download? Or can someone give me theirs?

[Vertex]

... ASSUMING
1. you've read the art doc stuff to know what to set to for exporting
2. you've put the exporter in right folder and scripts in their right folder and installed them
3. you've got max 5.1 or below
4. You've set any custom stuff you've done correctly (ie anim notes and such)

What I'd do to test whether it's a max prob or whatever...

Take a (as is) irrational model you got from official site, and export it (as is) without altering a single solitary thing... and see if it exports. If it does then you got a checklist and a half to go through, such as is the mesh file simply too big for my comp to process (ie) too many anims or skin files aren't assigned properly, and so on and so on. At least this would narrow down your prob from being anything could be wrong to... it's something I've done with the mesh.

[davy jones]

I don't know. In my version of 3ds max my meshes look messed up.

The animations are messed up and limbs look overstreched!

Even if my version of 3ds is broken, where do I get a good one?

[Previsionary]

Is there a 3ds max 4 download? Or can someone give me theirs?

You're skirting a close line there and could get in trouble with questions like that. Just a tip. 3ds Max is an expensive product, costing hundreds of dollars, if you're lucky, and over a thousand if you're not. I doubt anyone is just going to "give" you his/her copy, and it's definitely not available for download for free. You're only going to find that software in places that sell older software. Even the demo is hard to come by now since Discreet disowned it. If your version is messed up, and a reinstall doesn't fix it... then the writing is on the wall.

[davy jones]

Sorry. It's so old, I thought they'd give it for free.

I know I got it for free from a community a while ago, but removed it. I got it off mediafire, IIRC.

The issue is, Plugins for 3ds5 only work of 3,4 and 5. I've looked for 3ds max literrary everywhere (and I don't mean free download sites). There just isn't any version below 2008 left. The one I have is broken; it crashes when I export.

Alternatively, I could ask someone to export my meshes, but I doubt anyone will...

[Vertex]

Sorry I can't help you on any exporting, I would but my video card died on my pc and all I can see on it is a patchwork of squares... just finding a file to send to someone recently was a complete nightmare and I got NO money to buy a new one. I'm out of meshing till I can fix my pc and that looks closer to never than sooner now. 

[davy jones]

Ok... So I got a WORKING copy of max 5.

The thing is, when I export to Nif, it just crashes in "line 63"...

Anyone got any advice?

Could it be corrupt download?

[style]

Sorry I can't help you on any exporting, I would but my video card died on my pc and all I can see on it is a patchwork of squares... just finding a file to send to someone recently was a complete nightmare and I got NO money to buy a new one. I'm out of meshing till I can fix my pc and that looks closer to never than sooner now. 

I would gladly pay to get ur pc fixed just to see u meshing again

[davy jones]

Yeah... Well can anybody fix my problem? Has anybody else encountered it? Solved it?

Also does anybody have a note key configuration .txt? Basically the notes saved as txt via the exporter.

[Vertex]

well... the note keys are "exclusive" to that particular mesh's animations. If I were to alter length or something in an animation the notes would need to change to reflect and then I would only be able to use the notes for my set of anims... needless to say this is true of basically every mesh I have made for quite some time. If you're messing with a set of anims that have NOT been altered from the original set that Irrational gave out with it's "samples" the solution is quite simple. Use the character tool and on the bottom I believe it gives the options to save or load note keys. Once you save a set from original sample simply load it into new mesh.... why you would need to do this I have no clue since mesh you modified physically but did not alter animations of... would still have unaltered keys that work... Basically it's hard to help you since I have NO idea what the problem is. You're gonna have to explain a lot better for me to help on this subject honestly.

[davy jones]

Well what is there to say?

I export my mesh... Well try to... And it just crashes...

[Vertex]

Okay,

I'll try this fresh from the beginning again

You NEED to follow these steps that I've already advised

1. READ the tutorial docs that come in the art processes section of the help menu: They not only include directions on virtually every facet of modding the game, they include PICTURES of what settings to put the exporter on when exporting.

2. Take a mesh as given by Irrational itself, and try to export IT as is, with your copy of 3ds max. I can't stress enough how important this step is... as it will show whether it is your copy of max with the exporter and scripts installed that is the problem... or whether what you've made is.  When you export the mesh please bear in mind that when exporting using the character tool to access the exporter, the character.nif and keyframes files will be placed in the SAME folder at the max file, so make sure there is no existing .nif and .key files there to block the export.

3. As far as what I wasn't clear on, I thought I summed that up .. that I couldn't understand why you wanted to import track notes to a mesh in the first place. If I understood why I could possibly help explain the proper way to handle it for what you're doing.


Honestly though, more important than any mesh alterations or creations you've come up with, you are saying you are unable to export anything  you've made at all. You NEED to attempt an export of a known working mesh in order to at LEAST verify if you have a max problem or a USER problem before you can proceed to make or alter anything.

[davy jones]

1. There's nothing I can find there. There are no settings to set before exporting the meshes.

2. I tried. It crashes nevertheless.

3. I want to see how a animation track notes look like, that way I could edit them externally and importing them into 3ds.

[hoss20]

1. READ the tutorial docs that come in the art processes section of the help menu: They not only include directions on virtually every facet of modding the game, they include PICTURES of what settings to put the exporter on when exporting.

1. There's nothing I can find there. There are no settings to set before exporting the meshes.

I hope I'm not butting in where I'm not wanted, but there are settings for exporting shown in the Art Docs. There should be a link to them in your Program Files menu under Irrational Games->Freedom Force vs The 3rd Reich->Help->Art Docs. Since, my Windows 7 machine is in the shop, I can't remember if the menu setup is the same. Here's the manual path I have for my XP machine: C:\Program Files\Irrational Games\Freedom Force vs The 3rd Reich\Help\Art Docs
Click on the 'index.htm' file and that will bring up a menu screen.


Then, after clicking on Exporting, you get this screen:


After scrolling down a bit, there are the first group of settings:


I really hope that I haven't just pointed something out that you've already done. In saying, "There's nothing I can find here," I don't know if you mean that what's available didn't help or that you haven't come across these documents. In saying, "There are no settings to set before exporting the meshes," it makes me think you might have missed this documentation somewhere.

[davy jones]

That would be helpful...
But my exporter crashes right when I click save, before the menu appears...

[Vertex]

wow I'm so glad hoss stepped in... actually found out a couple of things that way! 

okay so what version of windows are you using?
what version of 3ds max?
Are you attempting to export from the file menu or from the character tool script? (you supposedly installed this yourself)
Did you anger some primitive 3ds god in the past and are now suffering from it's eternal wrath?

[davy jones]

wow I'm so glad hoss stepped in... actually found out a couple of things that way! 

okay so what version of windows are you using?
what version of 3ds max?
Are you attempting to export from the file menu or from the character tool script? (you supposedly installed this yourself)
Did you anger some primitive 3ds god in the past and are now suffering from it's eternal wrath?

-Windows XP 32 Bits
-3ds Max 5
-File Menu
-No, but I red some forbidden book a while ago