Batman v Superman

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

I should point out that while critic review has been very negative, feedback from fans who saw it early has been very good.

So I wouldn't pre-judge it quite yet.

[Thunder]

I'm looking forward to it. I'm one of the ones who liked Man of Steel, so I feel I will enjoy this.  I'm going in with no expectations except for who the main characters are.  I feel it's a disservice to both Marvel and DC to compare their film franchises.  Marvel has always been about more relatable characters anf their worlds.  DC has always been on a more epic scale.  I feel that DC characters are our American mythology, much like the myths of the Greeks, Norse, and Egyptians.  The characters were created at a time when we, as a people, needed something to cheer about.  Anyway, I think the DC Cinematic Universe will be a fun ride.

[abenavides]

Going tomorrow afternoon (got my tix a while back)

A bit worried that the reviews seem to confirm my fears that it's more Man of Steel than Avengers (and I liked Man of Steel more than most).

[Shogunn2517]

Wow.  A couple of friends of mine(from two separate walks) have resorted to live tweeting during the movie to express their disdain for the movie... and their reviews are actually HARSHER than the above link.

"Minute 25 of the new Superman/Batman movie and I wished I would have stayed home and watched Daredevil. Or, like, slammed my hand in a door."

"I would rather fight off an ebola fever with Flint tap water than watch that movie again."

"If you really love a person, you will stop them from watching this film at gunpoint, if necessary."

Those were just the non-spoiler, non-profanity laced ones.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

See, I trust things like that more than the critics.

But yeesh, that is bad.

Really interested in what our own members have to say. I've always found reviews from people you know or at least have similar interests to you to be the most reliable.

[Talavar]

Haven't seen it, but hearing some spoilers and...

Spoiler

it sounds like DC character assassination.  As in, how can Zack Snyder demonstrate he understands these characters less well than the ending of Man of Steel?

[Shogunn2517]

Haven't seen it, but hearing some spoilers and...

Spoiler

it sounds like DC character assassination.  As in, how can Zack Snyder demonstrate he understands these characters less well than the ending of Man of Steel?

I think that's exactly what I'm afraid of.

[AfghanAnt]

It was long, dragged in places, lots of plot holes, but it was OK. Wonder Woman was the greatest part.

[spydermann93]

It was long, dragged in places, lots of plot holes, but it was OK. Wonder Woman was the greatest part.

Pretty much, this.

Personally, I think that Man of Steel was a better movie, and while there were a few parts that I liked in Batman v Superman, a lot of it was "Why?" or just mediocre. It's nowhere NEAR the mess that Fant4stic was.  Not even close.  Was it a good movie? Eh. But it certainly wasn't unwatchable.

Spoiler

Batman was ok.  His martial and physical prowess showed a lot more in this movie than it did in Nolan's franchise, which I liked.  He played a bit of a detective, sniffing out gang members and stuff. But other than that, he did some pretty non-Batman things, like straight up murdering people using his Batmobile and Batplane. He clearly didn't have his "no kill" policy (the "no guns" policy is very debatable), and that is displayed rather bluntly when he's in his vehicles.

His visions are oddly placed at times, and often take me right out of the mood that they're trying to establish.  The biggest example is at the beginning of the movie, we get a montage of his parents being shot in the alley, their funeral, Bruce running into the woods and falling into a bat cave. It was all very well done and emotional.  And then, as the bats surround him, Bruce begins to levitate off of the ground being carried by the "bat vortex." That part was then explained to have been a dream to him, but man, does it look silly.  There was no clear distinction between what was real and his dreams/visions. Obviously, that's a point to his character in the movie, but when it starts interrupting the flow of the movie, that's a problem.

Wonder Woman was great in her fight scenes. Very strong, skilled, and all around bad***.  Other than that, she wasn't really around too much for me to form a solid opinion on her, but I certainly didn't have any problems with her.

Superman is still learning what it means to be Superman, and you can definitely see that from time to time in the film.  I really did appreciate the scenes where he went out of his way to save somebody.  One scene, he sees a girl in Mexico is trapped in a burning building on TV, flies over and saves her.  That's the Superman I want to see.  In his fight with Batman, he tries talking to Bruce before actually fighting, despite the fact that his mother (Ma Kent) is being held hostage by Lex's goons.  I liked that. It's just a blasted shame that...

Spoiler

THEY KILLED HIM OFF!!! They frickin' killed him! Why!? Why did they have to kill him before the first Justice League movie? Agggh! Doomsday grows a bone spike hand thing and impales Supes, killing him. And what's even worse is that they reverse that not five minutes after the fact! Why stick it in the movie if you're just going to cop-out within 5 minutes? Bologna, that's why.

Jesse Eisenberg as Lex Luthor. Yeah, if you liked the Lex Luthor from Superman: TAS or Justice League: TAS, you probably won't find Eisenberg's version very compelling. He just felt.... awkward.  He lacked any of the charisma Lex usually possesses and he seems like a joker, and I mean that in more ways than one. At least he hates Superman.  He has that going for him, which is nice.

Oh, and in the movie, Wonder Woman was trying to get a file back from Lex Luthor that he captured, and Batman kind of intercepts her in that regard.  In the files, there are videos and photos of various metahumans, more specifically the Flash, Cyborg, Aquaman, and, of course, Wonder Woman.  When Batman sends Wonder Woman her picture, he also sends the footage of the other heroes, which, as Movie Bob said, definitely felt like 5 post-credit scenes smacked right into the middle of the movie.

Doomsday was a bit better than what the previews make him out to be.  He has brute strength, the ability to adapt to various forms of damage, etc., but they also gave him the ability to shoot lasers out of his face Destroyer Armor style, and to fly (kind of).  He was gargantuan.  Think the cave troll from Fellowship of the Ring and that's Doomsday.  Throughout the fight, he adapts and grows, eventually getting all of his bone spikes and things like that. He definitely gets better looking as the fight goes on.

The fight against Doomsday was fun. Wonder Woman and Superman were kicking some serious butt, but they were still having a rough go of it, as it should be.  Supes and Wonder Woman were tag-teaming like the best of them.  Wonder Woman would set him up; Supes would knock him down.  Superman tries to end the fight early by taking Doomsday into outer space.  The military tried nuking them both while they were out of reach of any inhabited locations which only ends up back-firing (makes Doomsday stronger). I liked that Superman tried to keep it away from Gotham. It shows that he has learned quite a bit from Man of Steel. It was funny to see Batman there as he knew that he was out of his league in trying to fight Doomsday. Luckily, he still had Kryptonite smoke bombs to weaken the big lug when the timing was right.

I'd say I'd give it a 6/10. A little better than average, would probably sit and watch it if it were on TV, but other than that, I wouldn't go out of my way to see it.

[Talavar]

So, and please spoil the hell out of me those who've seen it...

Spoiler

they kill Superman?  I assume he gets better--this being Doomsday storyline and all--but does that also happen here?  Or is that being left for later?

[spydermann93]

So, and please spoil the hell out of me those who've seen it...

Spoiler

they kill Superman?  I assume he gets better--this being Doomsday storyline and all--but does that also happen here?  Or is that being left for later?

Spoiler

They strongly hint at Superman coming back to life when Lois walks away from his grave.

[daglob]

Yeah, one source I saw said that the plot was a mash up of several epic DC storylines...

[JeyNyce]

First off I would like to say sorry to Gal Gadot.  When I first heard that she was going to be Wonder Woman, I cringe.  After watching the movie, I wanted more of her.  She was one of the best parts of the movie.  No for my short review:

Spoiler

To fully understand the Batman v Superman movie, you need to read the following books:  The Dark Knight Returns, The Death of Superman and Injustice (comic or game).  They pretty much crammed 3 storylines into one movie.  I figure they did this to catch up with Marvel and the Avengers.  Again they showed a brief of Bruce parents getting shot (this is like Spidey's origin, over and over).  Anyway, while the JL cameos were kinda cool, it felt like it was force upon you like See!  We have more heroes to show you!  From what I'm read from the reviews so far, nobody liked Lex.  I though he was ok and they did the transformation arc with him that he's starts off silly, but in the end he becomes the Lex that we were expecting.

[JeyNyce]

Best review so far

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkD4S3KdaYA

No Spoilers

[Thunder]

Just got back from seeing Batman v Superman. I've heard a lot of negative things about it from "critics". However, this was a movie for the audience. i found that everything fit my expectations and even exceeded some. The movie definitely establishes a larger world, which it handles pretty well. The heroes were portrayed perfectly by the actors. Luthor was a different type of Luthor than we've seen before, but once a Luthor always a Luthor. All in all, i give it an 8.75 out of 10. It's a fun ride but definitely NOT a kids' movie.

[stumpy]

I gave it about 6/10. I'd estimate that my gf gave it about a 4.5/10. In the post-game discussion, we concluded the difference was largely that I was being kinder because I had read most of the stories that they were trying to cram into the movie and understood how they fit in. But, in retrospect, she is mostly right about that - lots of those bits are semi-easter eggs for comics fans, but don't make that much sense in the movie itself.

Some non-spoilery comments:

• Once again, Amy Adams is an okay Lois Lane, but some of her scenes felt tacked on to give her something to do.
  
• I agree with others about Wonder Woman. She was fun in this movie and they teased an origin story for her without dragging out an already-long movie with an actual origin story (which wasn't needed). And, though I still think Wonder Woman should have a bit more of an athletic look, Gal Gadot (or the special effects/CGI crew) pulled of the action scenes without a hitch. I had no trouble believing Gadot's Wonder Woman as a heavy hitter.
  
• Eisenberg has some talent as an actor, but this Luthor was really not compelling. Luthor is best when he isn't babbling at the edge of sanity. He is either not a wacky character (which is not to say he doesn't exhibit psychological issues), or he keeps things pretty tightly under control. If there was a desire to have a character like the one he played in this movie, they should have cast him as the Joker. Or possibly the Psycho Pirate...
  
• Batman 1: I actually found Affleck's Batman to be fine. I know lots of people were prepared to hate him and I had some concerns about the casting. But, he pulled it off. We are talking about acting here, not what happens in the story.
  
• Batman 2: Batman's portrayal in the story was weak. He is easily manipulated by Luthor, quick to jump to (erroneous) conclusions, overly emotional, etc. Batman is best portrayed as a brilliant detective, tactician, and technologist (as needed). His "super" power is that he's one the the smartest and most clear-headed people on the planet. He is two steps ahead of most smart people and, while he might not be two steps ahead of another genius like Luthor, he is at least canny enough to be aware that Luthor is working an angle and to be doubly-suspicious of anything connected to Luthor.
  
• I like Superman and I am getting used to Cavill's Superman, occasional wooden moments and accent slips aside. But, I am less of a huge fan of the portrayal of Superman as menacing. Batman is menacing; many of his opponents are intimidated because they can't face the wrathful demon. Superman is confident; many of his opponents are intimidated because he's freaking Superman and there is zero chance of beating someone who might have flown through the sun to dry his hair that morning.
  

The plot holes were trouble in this movie. Some things that bugged me (spoilers)

Spoiler

• After Luthor's ultimatum regarding Martha Kent, there is no way that Superman makes so little effort to communicate with Batman before (and early during) the fighting. "I am not here to fight you. I need your help." Remember those perfectly natural, reasonable lines from that scene? Neither do I. The lack of something like that just doesn't work for me. It's too contrived. Maybe Batman doesn't believe him or is too frazzled to listen, but Superman would at least try to tell him why the heck he is there.
  
• Perry White is treating Clark as a sports reporter and is clearly annoyed at Clark for looking to do some hard news journalism. I have lots of problems with this. First, Clark has never been a sports reporter and, if they are going to re-cast him as one, they might let us know. Second, Perry is right that no one (especially in Metropolis) cares about Clark Kent versus the Batman. But, Perry should be smart enough to see that a story about the role of vigilantes is a good story, particularly with the obvious potential for side-by-side comparisons, since Superman is also a vigilante. (I know that in many comics, Superman is deputized and so on. But, in this movie, a pretty major story arc is that Superman is a free agent with no official government sanction.) Third, Clark Kent does his *bleeping* job! If he's asked to write a sports story on the Metropolis Jockstraps or whatever, then he writes the story. If he goes to cover and write 20 column inches on some society event held by Lex Luthor, then he goes and writes it up. At the point in the story where Perry is holding up a pre-print page with Clark's missing columns, I was left thinking, "So, how does hard-nosed, no-nonsense Perry White not just fire Clark right there?"
  
• I mentioned this above, but Batman was way too easily duped. When watching the scene where Bruce has dreams/visions while he decodes Lex's data, I was thinking, "Oh, they are going to reveal that Lex implanted some sort of hypnosis software or subliminal suggestion trap in that data and that will explain why Bruce is so easily convinced that Supey is a bad guy." But, no. They never went there and just left us to believe (mostly) that Bruce has some bad dreams about Superman and decides he's justified in killing him.
  

Random observations:

Spoiler

• The meta-human files seem to confirm that they aren't using TV's Flash as the Movie Flash. Just more hinting that WB is keeping the TV DCU separate from the movie DCU. Kind of a shame.
  
• The ending left me wondering if there is to be a Reign of the Supermen aspect of the next movie. It seems ill-advised and unlikely that WB would spend much screen time on several fairly minor DC characters. But, it would certainly work from a plot perspective and they will need something to show the passage of time as Superman heals.
  
• So, next movie... Darkseid? Awesome, if they nail it.
  

BTW, all that having been said, I pretty much enjoyed the experience. Possibly a result of low expectations, but all the same.

[EDIT: Fixed indentation and a poorly worded sentence.]

[detourne_me]

Just a quick thing about you and your GF's reviews.  I had a pretty funny thing happen that was a little similar. After my wife and I saw it and got home, I was checking outthe reviews on the CGV app (it's the movie chain here in korea, and people post reviews, you can buy tickets, etc.) I was reading through them (barely, my Korean is horrible), and asked my wife about some vocabulary, especially one comment about the utter lack of a cohesive story.  after talking about that review for a while, I looked at the user name.  It was my wife's!!!  she was a little surprised i didn't notice it was her review at first when i had no idea.

[stumpy]

LOL! That's hilarious! 

At least you hadn't criticized the review itself without noticing the author. That would have been awkward. 

[Midnite]

Batman V Superman: The Theory of a Waking Knightmare

[BentonGrey]

I give you, the exact moment that Ben Affleck realized this movie was no good:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ben-affleck-batman-v-superman-reviews_us_56f54583e4b0a3721819b4da

[HarryTrotter]

I give you, the exact moment that Ben Affleck realized this movie was no good:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ben-affleck-batman-v-superman-reviews_us_56f54583e4b0a3721819b4da

That went viral pretty fast.   
Best comment I saw this far:
-Alien vs Predator is a better movie
-BvS,The Showgirls of superhero movies. 

[Silver Shocker]

I'll tell ya this, I haven't even seen the damn thing and I guarantee you the Supergirl/Flash crossover that was on this week was better. Seriously that thing was every bit as great as I thought it'd be. 

On a much less positive note, I saw this online and thought I'd like to share it with you. From David Goyer, writer of Man of Steel and Batman v. Superman:

"How many people in the audience have heard of Martian Manhunter?" Cheers and applause. "How many people that raised their hands have ever been laid?"

And keep in mind, he said that garbage at a Con Panel directly to DC/WB's fans and consumer base.

Yeah, between this and that vile crap he said about She-Hulk a year ago he can screw right off. Where do they get these people? The insane asylum?

[HarryTrotter]

DC pays hundreds of people to deal with PR.WB pays thousands...He should let those people do their jobs,he doesnt have to say the first dumb thing that comes to his mind.Just saying...

[Silver Shocker]

I'm not sure if you're addressing me or Goyer. Either way, I'm going to respectfully disagree with you.
Even a cursory glance at say, IGN a few times a month will reveal that most of the time, it's specially fan backlash that leads to them changing stuff for the better or going back on controversial policies. I just saw such an article regarding the game Overwatch.
I'm not even all that offended at the cheap shot at nerds. That's old hat, we were used to that kind of talk (and often joined in the fun, which I most certainly do when I'm hanging out with my friends) back when The Simpsons was still good. I'm more miffed at the suggestion that J'onn J'onzz isn't considered worth putting in the movies when Cyborg and Shazam are. He's been a notable supporting character in no less than 6 major DC super hero shows. Two of which had Batman in the title and one of the others is actively on tv right now. And even if he was too obscure to mainstream audiences, that's why you put him in there, so they can learn who he is.

[HarryTrotter]

Oh sorry,I meant Goyer.He doesnt have to say everthing that comes to his mind.Bad phrasing.Terribly sorry.

I dont see why he considers MM obscure,seeing that hes been an integral part of Justice League in almost every incarnation.

[Silver Shocker]

Oh sorry,I meant Goyer.Bad phrasing.Terribly sorry.

'Sall Good, Man. 

But seriously, why not J'onn? I'm not saying he needs his own film, but a supporting role, sure. He's an awesome character, and certainly better than lame ol' Aquaman (Oh snap shots fired Benton!  )

Did Marvel ever say anything like that when pitching, literally anyone after Phase 1?

I'd also like to point out that DC's next movie is Suicide Squad, featuring the first proper live action introduction to Harley Quinn. The only reason anyone outside the comics even knows what that is because DC/WB has been throwing em in there for the last three or four years (more if you count their appearance in the Justice League cartoon)

[Edit] Oh me oh my, so far I say Rob Liefeld of all people had the best diss for this movie. I don't know if I should post it though, it's a little off-color.

[HarryTrotter]

Maybe for some future phase,if they make it past phase 1...
Fun fact,according to Wikipedia,the movie did broke a record.Viewer "decay" from day 1 to day 2 was 58%.Thus beating Fantastic Four.

[baley]

For this fanboy, watching Batman v. Superman is like hearing an incompetent children's choir singing a favorite tune.

Just so, I liked the movie not because it was well-done---though it is not nearly as bad as its worst detractors say---but because I know how the notes they got wrong sound when they go right. I am able to make excuses for the movie literally as I am watching it.

(Also, on the part of this lifelong DC Comics partisan, there's an element of "That's my boy!")

Note that the concerns about its dumb obviousness are completely accurate. If you'd like to immerse yourself in the themes of this film, you may replicate the experience by having a slightly quirky nerd recite William Blake poems sing-song while death metal in the background screams, "UP UP ANGEL GOD, DOWN DOWN DEVIL MAN."

As a matter of fact, I agree with basically all the criticisms everyone has given, with the exception of the Minneapolis-St. Paul quip---it's obviously a San Francisco/Oakland distance, which like the Luthor thing is a bolder and and more interesting choice than people give credit, though I'm not sure they work.

[Talavar]

Maybe for some future phase,if they make it past phase 1...
Fun fact,according to Wikipedia,the movie did broke a record.Viewer "decay" from day 1 to day 2 was 58%.Thus beating Fantastic Four.

Yeah, the audience drop-off on Sunday was big enough that they had to revise their weekend box office estimates downward.  It'll be interesting to see what happens next weekend.

[bat1987]

I enjoyed the movie. Definitely not the kind of movie I expected to see. But I look at it as an elseworlds tale. Affleck was really good as Bruce/Batman (possibly my fave big screen Batman) and so was Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman. Lex was miscast IMO.

I think the critics are too harsh. I enjoyed it more than Iron Man 3 and Thor 2 thats for sure.