Batman v Superman

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

For those wondering about the R-rate cut, Snyder talked about that and explains that it was some of the actions scenes that were deemed too violent and were cut.  They just put them back in.  There's nothing like you'd normally think of.

This makes me feel better about the whole thing.

http://screenrant.com/batman-v-superman-r-rating-explanation-zack-snyder/

[Tomato]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awVNGfmCQsg -came across this while I was catching up on my youtube subs, made me giggle.

[Talavar]

The review embargo has just been lifted, and the overall tone is...less than stellar.  Will this impact the film's box office?  We'll find out soon.

[BentonGrey]

Wow...that's a lot of negativity showing up on Rotten Tomatoes.  It sounds like this is pretty much exactly what I was expecting out of this film.  Well, here's hoping this thing goes down in tremendous flames so it DOESN'T end up defining the next decade of DC comics movies as grim, gritty, and joyless.  If this could crash and burn as badly as the latest Fantastic Four disaster, maybe the powers that be would finally wake up to what superheroes are supposed to do and fire the heck out of Zack Snyder and Nolan.

[Shogunn2517]

Wow...that's a lot of negativity showing up on Rotten Tomatoes.  It sounds like this is pretty much exactly what I was expecting out of this film.  Well, here's hoping this thing goes down in tremendous flames so it DOESN'T end up defining the next decade of DC comics movies as grim, gritty, and joyless.  If this could crash and burn as badly as the latest Fantastic Four disaster, maybe the powers that be would finally wake up to what superheroes are supposed to do and fire the heck out of Zack Snyder and Nolan.

Liked!

The fact that this seems to be as underwhelming as MoS, though expected, it's still unfortunate.

[spydermann93]

IMDB has it at a 9.1.

Curious.

[Tomato]

Yeah, but I'm curious how much of that is pre-release support? Like a "Oh, of course this is gonna be awesome, I'll vote 10/10 before I even see it" kinda thing. Because Metacritic is more in line with rotten tomatoes.

That being said, I don't know if it's going to bomb like Benton wishes. I don't know that it'll do Deadpool levels of success, but it's getting a fair amount of preorder sales going into the release. And, honestly... while I think it shouldn't do well, I also don't want it to bomb. Doing mediocre will still hurt the studios (who threw something like 500 million into the movie) enough to maybe rethink putting Snyder at the helm going forward, but not so much that they won't reboot the DC filmverse plans yet AGAIN like they did after Green Lantern, or worse, give up entirely (which is a possibility given how much the studio would stand to lose if this flopped as badly as Benton suggests).

Personally, my hope is that it does ok... maybe enough to recoup the studio's loss, but not much more than that.

[HarryTrotter]

I saw a few reviews and they range from "like being in a rolling car accident" to "lets wait for the next Marvel movie".On the other hand,they all say Wonder Woman is the best part of the movie.I guess its a silver lining.

[Talavar]

Yeah, but I'm curious how much of that is pre-release support? Like a "Oh, of course this is gonna be awesome, I'll vote 10/10 before I even see it" kinda thing. Because Metacritic is more in line with rotten tomatoes.

That being said, I don't know if it's going to bomb like Benton wishes. I don't know that it'll do Deadpool levels of success, but it's getting a fair amount of preorder sales going into the release. And, honestly... while I think it shouldn't do well, I also don't want it to bomb. Doing mediocre will still hurt the studios (who threw something like 500 million into the movie) enough to maybe rethink putting Snyder at the helm going forward, but not so much that they won't reboot the DC filmverse plans yet AGAIN like they did after Green Lantern, or worse, give up entirely (which is a possibility given how much the studio would stand to lose if this flopped as badly as Benton suggests).

Personally, my hope is that it does ok... maybe enough to recoup the studio's loss, but not much more than that.

But if it doesn't do better than Deadpool, it will still be seen as a failure.  Deadpool is a tertiary character and was made for a (comparative) song.  Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman are DC's A-list, and as you say, a ton of money has been spent on this.  Studio hopes have to be more Avengers territory than not.  Still, I think international audiences will help bolster the box office, even if it tanks in North America.

[BentonGrey]

These are all very good points guys, and, sadly, I think it is still on track to make unholy amounts of money because people are stupid.  Yet, 'Mato makes a particularly good point.  Even if this thing does alright, it's not going to be considered a success unless it brings in piles and piles of money.

[daglob]

I haven't read through all these posts so far, but the problem I see is this: Snyder must have loved the Superman/Batman smackdown in The Dark Knight Returns, and didn't want to wait the 50 years to develop the dysfunctional relationship that series displayed (or do an "Elseworlds" movie). So, he decided to start his series with it. He made Supes a killer (stacking the deck against him so that it seemed like he had to do it), and gave Batman the resources to take him down.

Y'know, it's not that I don't like a little violence and destruction (I read reprints of The Spider), but this just doesn't seem to be the way to take this series. Superman is NOT Wolverine (and neither is Batman). Your heroes should be better than you are, not worse. This sounds more like the secondary antagonist in a Steve Ditko story, insisting that decent, altruistic, heroes somehow demean the average man.

The scary thing is, if the movie makes Big Bucks, it may affect the way the comic is done. If that happens, this child of the Silver Age will mourn the passing of an icon.

[Talavar]

I haven't read through all these posts so far, but the problem I see is this: Snyder must have loved the Superman/Batman smackdown in The Dark Knight Returns, and didn't want to wait the 50 years to develop the dysfunctional relationship that series displayed (or do an "Elseworlds" movie). So, he decided to start his series with it. He made Supes a killer (stacking the deck against him so that it seemed like he had to do it), and gave Batman the resources to take him down.

Y'know, it's not that I don't like a little violence and destruction (I read reprints of The Spider), but this just doesn't seem to be the way to take this series. Superman is NOT Wolverine (and neither is Batman). Your heroes should be better than you are, not worse. This sounds more like the secondary antagonist in a Steve Ditko story, insisting that decent, altruistic, heroes somehow demean the average man.

The scary thing is, if the movie makes Big Bucks, it may affect the way the comic is done. If that happens, this child of the Silver Age will mourn the passing of an icon.

Very interesting that you brought up Steve Ditko.  Snyder's dream project is apparently a big budget adaptation of the Fountainhead.  He's a Randian Objectivist, and if there's a character more directly juxtaposed to Rand's espoused philosophy than Superman, I don't know who it would be.

[BentonGrey]

Y'know, it's not that I don't like a little violence and destruction (I read reprints of The Spider), but this just doesn't seem to be the way to take this series. Superman is NOT Wolverine (and neither is Batman). Your heroes should be better than you are, not worse. This sounds more like the secondary antagonist in a Steve Ditko story, insisting that decent, altruistic, heroes somehow demean the average man.

Talavar, is he really a Randian?  Wow, he's a grown man who still thinks Ayn Rand has anything useful to say...no wonder.

[HarryTrotter]

I already see Millars Superior being a way better Superman movie.

[Outcast]

I've been reading some of the reviews on the net. And i'm not really surprised that many didn't really enjoy the movie.  Comments like the movie was overstuffed, convoluted,  and incoherent were the kind i was expecting from this movie. It just seems forced to me, the way they wanted to make Batman and Superman fight each other. Like they were in a hurry to follow in the footsteps/success of the Avengers movie, trying to introduce a lot of characters to build up a Justice League movie.

What i was surprised to read/hear is that people thought Ben Affleck did a good job as Batman in the movie. I haven't watched the movie, but like the majority, i didn't think Ben was a good fit/choice for Batman. Maybe he did his best to prove his critics wrong.

Gal Gadot role as Wonder Woman is also being praised by reviewers. Can't say the same for the actor playing Lex Luthor.

[Silver Shocker]

Very interesting that you brought up Steve Ditko.  Snyder's dream project is apparently a big budget adaptation of the Fountainhead.  He's a Randian Objectivist, and if there's a character more directly juxtaposed to Rand's espoused philosophy than Superman, I don't know who it would be.

Makes me think about Watchmen. Rorschach was supposed to be a take down of Ditko's Objectivist views (kinda like the video game Bioshock I suppose)  but it kinda makes me wonder if Snyder was rooting for him (admittedly, Rorschach, crazy as he is, is pretty cool).

Reviews aren't sounding good. Glad to hear Batfleck is apparently good (A reviewer I watch said Batman was the best thing about the movie) along with Jeremy Irons as Alfred. Apparently there's MORE destruction in this than in MOS (I'm not sure that's possible).

Not planning to see this in theaters, and none of the people I go see movies with seem to be interested either, especially now the bad reviews are pouring out. I'd give it a digital rental down the line, and will probably enjoy Affleck and Batman and Superman fighting.

[Talavar]

Y'know, it's not that I don't like a little violence and destruction (I read reprints of The Spider), but this just doesn't seem to be the way to take this series. Superman is NOT Wolverine (and neither is Batman). Your heroes should be better than you are, not worse. This sounds more like the secondary antagonist in a Steve Ditko story, insisting that decent, altruistic, heroes somehow demean the average man.

Talavar, is he really a Randian?  Wow, he's a grown man who still thinks Ayn Rand has anything useful to say...no wonder.

Apparently.  The Fountainhead part is definitely true, that he's an Objectivist is partially supposition.

[stumpy]

I haven't read through all these posts so far, but the problem I see is this: Snyder must have loved the Superman/Batman smackdown in The Dark Knight Returns, and didn't want to wait the 50 years to develop the dysfunctional relationship that series displayed (or do an "Elseworlds" movie). So, he decided to start his series with it. He made Supes a killer (stacking the deck against him so that it seemed like he had to do it), and gave Batman the resources to take him down.

This has been my take on what's going on as well. And, beyond the particular jonesing for the the fight from The Dark Knight, Warner Brothers is rushing the development of their DC movie universe in an attempt to catch up to other comics archetypes that Marvel has successfully brought to the big screen. Marvel has successfully integrated their characters into a universe where team stories and crossovers are organic and seamless. So, WB turns the second of its latest generation of movies into a multi-hero movie, ignoring that Marvel started most of their heavy hitters out with solo movies.

Then, having successfully gotten those heroes onto the screen together, Marvel integrates another great comics theme into the mix: The clash of heroes. In only its second movie, WB is trying to get the same thing going in SvB that Marvel will (likely successfully, if recent history is any guide) pull off in Civil War. But, Civil War didn't emerge newly minted from the forge with no antecedents; there has been a history of these characters working together, despite some friction between them. There have been many movies in the MCU at this point, so Marvel isn't just throwing these guys together for a cage match in the second movie. How odd would it have seemed if Iron Man 2 had introduced Thor and Captain America and then been half about them fighting one another?

As flawed as the fight between Superman and Batman was in the Dark Knight story, it was pretty clear that these were two characters who already had a history with one another and who split some time ago because of their differences. Starting them out as foes, well, I guess we'll see how it turns out.

The sad thing is that my gf and I both have Friday off and were thinking to take in this movie as part of our day. Sigh.

[stumpy]

IMDB has it at a 9.1.

This brings two points to mind. First, there seems to have been a general upward shift in user ratings over the past 5 years or so. I don't know if that's because moviegoers are getting more generous or less discerning or what. Or perhaps movies are getting better on average. I do think there is more of a tendency for moviegoers to be extremists in their reviews. E.g., there may be more reviewers who think "San Andreas kicked butt! Booyah!" and give it a 10/10 and fewer who think, "The movie was lots of fun to watch, but wasn't really told in an exceptional way, didn't have an interesting theme or philosophical point to make, etc. and wasn't really as good as some of the best movies I have ever seen." and give it a 7/10.

Second, the IMDB ratings for new movies are typically inflated. I would speculate that this is a natural consequence of who goes to the theater to see movies: people who are already inclined to like the movie. This leads to a bifurcation in the ratings. Some get enough of what they expected to confirm their pre-existing biases (e.g. "This character, actor, director are awesome! The thirty bucks I just spent for me and my SO to see this movie and have a couple sodas was well spent!") and some are disappointed because they went in with high expectations and the movie fell short of them (e.g. last year's Fantastic Four). These reactions don't represent the "here's what I thought of the movie, having gone in without too many expectations or wild fan enthusiasm about what the movie ought to be" perspective that a lot of people might expect of ratings. I would expect the ratings to even out over time, as more casual moviegoers see the movie. But, even that doesn't always seem to happen, since there tends to be an avalanche of reviews when the movie is released and then fewer and fewer as time goes on. If the first 30,000 ratings are from the early viewers, it may take a long time before enough later reviewers have any impact on the average. However, one can see that the ratings for Batman v Superman have already fallen to 8.8 and I wouldn't be surprised if they continued to drift downward for a while.

[Shogunn2517]

I saw a few reviews and they range from "like being in a rolling car accident" to "lets wait for the next Marvel movie".On the other hand,they all say Wonder Woman is the best part of the movie.I guess its a silver lining.

Funny, what I've been hearing about WW was that she might have been done well but completely unnecessary for the film overall.

[Shogunn2517]

So if anyone is curious about a extremely and brutally honest review of BvS?

Just FYI, major, major, major, MAJOR spoilers inside.(seriously do not view unless you want major plot points, characters and ending revealed)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTKDtoBR-2M

[daglob]

This reminds me of he Conan movie: they took parts of "Tower of the Elephant", "A Witch Shall Be Born", "Queen of the Black Coast", and a tiny bit of "The Thing on the Throne", combining them with the background of "The Shadow Kingdom" (Kull) and made a movie. While I liked the movie well enough, I wondered what was left to make into a film when it was through. Part of the reason was, of course, that they didn't know if there would be a second or third movie, so they wanted to get in all the "good parts" on the screen.

I've seen comments that some feel that Superman is a villain in these movies (at least once attributed to Henry Cavill), because big blue boy scouts are soooo boring, and everyone loves the bad boy. Someone finally pointed out that this Superman's costume looks hauntingly like the one Earth-3(?) Ultraman has been wearing lately.

Also, when the reviewer said that the goofy looking kid was Lex Luthor, I wondered just what comic Snyder had been reading. Minor Spoiler:

Spoiler

I love the observation that Lex acts like both he and the Joker were originally in the movie, but they cut Joker out and mashed the characters together and didn't change the story.

I could probably go on for hours, but I'll stop for now.

[HarryTrotter]

So if anyone is curious about a extremely and brutally honest review of BvS?

Just FYI, major, major, major, MAJOR spoilers inside.(seriously do not view unless you want major plot points, characters and ending revealed)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTKDtoBR-2M

"As a comic book fan I suddenly feel old and tired"
I know that feeling.

[detourne_me]

In my opinion she was one of the better parts of the movie,  actually a few of her lines really made me excited for her movie when it comes out.

Other than that I'm fine with the Zach Snyder movies being Elseworlds tales in my headcanon.

I saw a few reviews and they range from "like being in a rolling car accident" to "lets wait for the next Marvel movie".On the other hand,they all say Wonder Woman is the best part of the movie.I guess its a silver lining.

Funny, what I've been hearing about WW was that she might have been done well but completely unnecessary for the film overall.

[kkhohoho]

So if anyone is curious about a extremely and brutally honest review of BvS?

Just FYI, major, major, major, MAJOR spoilers inside.(seriously do not view unless you want major plot points, characters and ending revealed)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTKDtoBR-2M

"As a comic book fan I suddenly feel old and tired"
I know that feeling.

Same here. (And I'm not even that old!)

[spydermann93]

My optimism still burns bright!

I'm seeing it tonight with a bunch of my friends.

I will report back with what I found.

[HarryTrotter]

My optimism still burns bright!

I'm seeing it tonight with a bunch of my friends.

I will report back with what I found.

Have a good time.
As for me,I think I will wait for Civil War.Never thought I would say that...

[AfghanAnt]

I'm optimistic, but honestly if you compare the Avengers critic reviews to this film I am terrified I'm about to waste 2.5 hours of my life. Either way, tickets paid and will be seeing it in less than 7 hours.

[JeyNyce]

Guys, don't worry about what critics say.  If you want to see this movie, go see it.  If you like Man of Steel, then see this movie.  If you have doubts, wait for it to hit Redbox or Netflix.

[BentonGrey]

Yeah, if you've already bought your tickets, I hope you have a good time, but if you haven't, there certainly seems to be good cause to reconsider going to see it.  Remember, you vote with your wallet.