Batman v Superman

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

I was not expecting that steep dropoff.  That is not good.  It could actually turn into a flop if this keeps up.

The interesting thing is that they've already committed to other movies in the universe.  Suicide Squad is about ready for release itself and Wonder Woman has already been filmed or maybe is still filming.

I would be interested in knowing if these movies can succeed even if the universe launch film fails.  Suicide Squad looks like it might actually be good.  Grim and gritty is actually appropriate for this one, but it looks like they nail Harley's humor at least.  Wonder Woman with the historic setting (and one rather rare at that) might also be good.

I would find it very interesting if one or both succeeded, but Batman v Superman failed.  It would do interesting things to the franchise.  Not sure what.

[Talavar]

I was not expecting that steep dropoff.  That is not good.  It could actually turn into a flop if this keeps up.

The interesting thing is that they've already committed to other movies in the universe.  Suicide Squad is about ready for release itself and Wonder Woman has already been filmed or maybe is still filming.

I would be interested in knowing if these movies can succeed even if the universe launch film fails.  Suicide Squad looks like it might actually be good.  Grim and gritty is actually appropriate for this one, but it looks like they nail Harley's humor at least.  Wonder Woman with the historic setting (and one rather rare at that) might also be good.

I would find it very interesting if one or both succeeded, but Batman v Superman failed.  It would do interesting things to the franchise.  Not sure what.

Exactly why the damage control is happening.  On top of the critical lambasting, word of mouth--barring a few outliers--is damning with faint praise at best.  That's why we've already had Zack Snyder saying that Justice League will be lighter in tone, and the director attached to Aquaman has also been saying his movie will be fun and swashbuckling.  If the second weekend dropoff is severe, expect more of that, but also maybe someone joining Snyder in charge of this ball of wax.  It's too late to remove him entirely as the Justice League director.

[BentonGrey]

Exactly why the damage control is happening.  On top of the critical lambasting, word of mouth--barring a few outliers--is damning with faint praise at best.  That's why we've already had Zack Snyder saying that Justice League will be lighter in tone, and the director attached to Aquaman has also been saying his movie will be fun and swashbuckling.  If the second weekend dropoff is severe, expect more of that, but also maybe someone joining Snyder in charge of this ball of wax.  It's too late to remove him entirely as the Justice League director.

Too little too late, Snyder.  I don't think he'd know light, joyful adventure if it came up and buckled his swash.  He had his chance, twice, and he made empty, hero-less disaster porn instead of superhero movies.

[Tomato]

Ultimately, here's what I feel about Batman V Superman: Despite the mess it apparently is (and I add the apparently because I haven't yet seen it, more on that in a second) I still think it's a SALVAGEABLE mess. The hate is squarely aimed at Goyer's script and Snyder's direction. The actors they have are apparently great in their roles, and the poor reviews and box office drop off make it likely the problems the film series have will be fixed. I'm actually quite hopeful going forward.

As for this film... yeah, I dunno. I'm debating even seeing it right now. See, normally, my dad (who got me into comics in the first place) goes with me to these films, to the point where I don't think I've seen a MCU film without him IIRC. He wants nothing to do with this movie... he doesn't like the reviews, doesn't like the tone, doesn't like any of it. And since I'm in a similar boat, I really can't blame him for that... the ONLY reason I want to see this movie is because I do actually want to see it for myself so I can form my own opinion... I've bucked popular trends before (I actually like Green Lantern and XMO Wolverine) so even though everything I've heard indicates I'll hate this film... I may be surprised.

[thalaw2]

I agree with Mato.  I really want to see the movie but the reviews make me not wanna pay full price.

[BentonGrey]

If I ever see it, it will be on Netflix where I'm not paying money directly for it.

[Talavar]

If I ever see it, it will be on Netflix where I'm not paying money directly for it.

Agreed.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

It passed 500 mil in spite of the dropoff.  Looks like the studio is happy with it, so all the 5 billion doom and gloom sequels are still on.

Although WB actually wants to give its producers and directors more freedom to set the tone they want, so we may get more of a variety.  We will see.

[BentonGrey]

Bah.

[Midnite]

Cancelled BATMAN V SUPERMAN Original Script Re-Upload (Batman VS Superman 2003)

[Talavar]

It passed 500 mil in spite of the dropoff.  Looks like the studio is happy with it, so all the 5 billion doom and gloom sequels are still on.

Although WB actually wants to give its producers and directors more freedom to set the tone they want, so we may get more of a variety.  We will see.

Everything I've read suggests this coming weekend is the real test.  500 million isn't enough for this movie--if it doesn't beat Deadpool, for instance, it's going to be seen as a financial failure.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

It needs 800 million to break even.  It's already at 500 million at one week.  I see no way it won't make it, even if it slows down to a craw.

[BentonGrey]

The empty suits won't consider breaking even good enough, though, so that's something.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

It depends on whether they consider this a money maker in its own right, or merely a launch vehicle for the real moneymakers.  My feeling is the latter.

[BentonGrey]

I don't know, if their two marque characters can't bring Avengers-level profits, then they will HAVE to worry about the solo films.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

I don't know, if their two marque characters can't bring Avengers-level profits, then they will HAVE to worry about the solo films.

You're thinking about it the wrong way Benton.  It's on track to make 800 million.  Almost no movie ever makes that much.  They deliberately spent 550 million in promotion.  Think of that.  If they wanted profits, they just had to hold back on promotional stuff.  They'd be raking in the dough then.  Avengers it looks like spend maybe half that much.  Avengers cost less to make too.  Of course they made more profits.

They aren't doing this to make money on this movie.

[BentonGrey]

Stop stamping out my hope, Cat. 

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Well, the good news is, the studios do seem to have gotten the message at least a bit.  The apparently are rushing the stars of Suicide Squad back to film new scenes to make that film lighter.  Mind you, that's a bit stupid since it's one film where it's okay to go dark.  It's about a bunch of villains.  No one's suprised if they kill people and hit puppies.  Although some of them probably like puppies.  I mean who doesn't like puppies?

[spydermann93]

I mean who doesn't like puppies?

Catwoman

[BentonGrey]

I mean who doesn't like puppies?

Catwoman

[Talavar]

I don't know, if their two marque characters can't bring Avengers-level profits, then they will HAVE to worry about the solo films.

You're thinking about it the wrong way Benton.  It's on track to make 800 million.  Almost no movie ever makes that much.  They deliberately spent 550 million in promotion.  Think of that.  If they wanted profits, they just had to hold back on promotional stuff.  They'd be raking in the dough then.  Avengers it looks like spend maybe half that much.  Avengers cost less to make too.  Of course they made more profits.

They aren't doing this to make money on this movie.

True, cat, but it's also about perception.  Deadpool has already made $750 million--Deadpool.  If the perception is that Batman v. Superman underperformed, that perception has real effects.  Man of Steel made about 670 million, and was seen as underperforming, so they brought in the cashcow of Batman to shore up those numbers rather than doing a straight sequel.  The Amazing Spider-man 2 made $700 million, and derailed all of Sony's plans for building a Spider-man shared universe of films, not even getting a sequel. 

It's not just about making profits (which it's always partially about); it's about being seen to build on success.  Critical success is out of reach already, so at least bragging rights of financial success would help, and the jury is still out in that regard.

Edited to add: Well, the weekend estimates are in, with Batman v. Superman projected to have earned 50 million dollars.  That's already reduced from Friday's prediction of 58 million, and a fairly precipitous drop, particularly given the lack of competition.  A lot of big summer movies drop less, or similar amounts, and they face competition from the next weekend's big release.  International box office may be this film's saving grace, at least when compared to other superhero movies, but domestically, I think Warner Bros has good reason to be concerned.

[bat1987]

Well that was weird. I actually typed a bit more in depth review of the film pointing all pros and cons (there's quite a bit of both), and then I accidentally deleted it, and there's no way I'm typing all of that again (maybe when I have nothing better to do lol)

For now I'll do a rather short summary of it

Spoiler

Affleck looked, acted and fought better than any other Bruce/Batman before him on the big screen. Was definitely more brutal than I'd like, but I'm open minded when it comes to movies. It's an interpretation of the mythos IMO. Dead Robin could have been a turning point in his carrier. Would like to see it adressed in future films. People seem to be forgetting how Michael Keaton Batman was. Really want see Affleck go against Leto's Joker.
Gal Gadot was great WW, eventhough there wasn't a lot her in the movie, what was there was great. Really want to see her solo film now.
Cavill was pretty much like he was in MoS. The tone of both this movie and MoS was darker than what I'd like to see in a Superman film.
Lex was miscast, and acted nothing like the character, have no idea what they were going for with him. Too eccentric and Joker like.
Doomsday was servicable as a plot device, pretty much what I think of the villain in the comics as well.
They crammed way too much stuff in the film. From Bruce's origin to BvS conflict, WW, people's perception of Superman, death of Superman, dream sequences. They wanted to setup everything in one film. Big flaw IMO. The epilogue felt way too long too
JL cameos were nicely done. Not sure about The Flash. Did like Aquaman and Cyborg, from what I've seen.
Parademons!
Seeing trinity together at the end was worth the price of the ticket. For me anyway. There' a lot of DC easter eggs and refferences, so there's a lot to like in that regard. Any DC fan should see this film and then form an opinion. Don't tear the movie apart without seeing it. If you like it, cool, if you didn't that's cool too.
It is a very dark and gloomy film, which is its biggest flaw along with the amount of stuff they packed into it. I don't mind dark and gloomy, but they need to dial it back in future films. Looks like they got the message though and its something they are gonna work on in future films.

[Tomato]

So apparently Friday's sales were 19% of what they were opening weekend. To put that in perspective, the recent Fantastic Four movie made 21% from opening friday to the following friday according to Box Office Mojo, and it made significantly less to start with. That's gotta hurt the WB execs.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

What's really weird is that they are also saying the people watching the movie a second time is 30% higher than average.  So those that do see it are more likely to see it a second time, but fewer people want to see it in the first place once they hear from those who have seen it.  The only thing I can make out of that is that there is a minority of rabid fans out there.

[Talavar]

What's really weird is that they are also saying the people watching the movie a second time is 30% higher than average.  So those that do see it are more likely to see it a second time, but fewer people want to see it in the first place once they hear from those who have seen it.  The only thing I can make out of that is that there is a minority of rabid fans out there.

Yeah, I find that really interesting.  For the people it works for, apparently it really works for them.  Like I predicted earlier though, the user ratings on sites like Rotten Tomatoes and IMDB keep dropping.  The people who are liking it are not enough any more to hold back the votes of the majority who aren't liking it.

[Tomato]

What's bizarre to me is that I keep hearing about this imaginary "critics vs fans" debate that is apparently happening... and I honestly just don't see it. The best response here is "meh," the best I've heard from friends who've seen it is "meh" and generally speaking most comic fans I know dislike this film more than casual viewers. So I totally buy that there is this small section of the comic fan base that LOVES this movie because they get to see batman and superman fight and it's got some really great shots of the trinity and all that... but this myth that it's only the critics that dislike this film and "true" fans love it is just absurd.

[Talavar]

What's bizarre to me is that I keep hearing about this imaginary "critics vs fans" debate that is apparently happening... and I honestly just don't see it. The best response here is "meh," the best I've heard from friends who've seen it is "meh" and generally speaking most comic fans I know dislike this film more than casual viewers. So I totally buy that there is this small section of the comic fan base that LOVES this movie because they get to see batman and superman fight and it's got some really great shots of the trinity and all that... but this myth that it's only the critics that dislike this film and "true" fans love it is just absurd.

I honestly think this movie's biggest fans aren't really comic book fans either.  They're the people who loved the Dark Knight but thought Batman wasn't violent enough, then made fan films where Batman uses guns and kills people--hey, just like BvS!  I don't mean everyone who likes Batman v. Superman are those people, just the people who absolutely love it, and there are a few of those out there.

In other news, the international box office slumped hard as well, particularly China, where BvS is on track to do about Ant-man numbers.  Domestically it's on track to earn about 360 million, so this scuttles pretty much any chance of BvS cracking a billion dollars, which was a hypothetical target at one time.

[BentonGrey]

Music to my ears.

Yeah, I'm hearing, at best, very faint praise ('it wasn't as bad as I thought,' etc.) or very mixed positivity.  Every single thing I hear about this movie, and I just listened to a spoiler-rific round table about it, makes it sound even worse than I imagined.  A gun-totting, murderous Batman?  Wow, just when I thought I couldn't have a lower opinion of this film or the people involved.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Some news you might be interested in Benton.  Word is they are planning on introducing Aquaman for his own movie--by having him go to war against the rest of the world.  Apparently they are under the impression the superhero try to kill each other every time they meet or something.

[BentonGrey]

Well of course, what could be more heroic than flat out murder?  Heroes certainly never try to find non-lethal solutions.  Even suggesting such a thing is down-right un-American.

You know, when I get some time in the next week or two, I'm going to write a blog post listing some of the many, many, MANY reasons that the DC Universe just shouldn't be a grim and gritty place, on the whole.  I think I'll start the list off with Gorilla City, because a city of technically advanced science-apes just doesn't lend itself to joyless violence and naval-gazing.