MManhunter Ren issues

[SickAlice]

Making a separate thread as this nif differs from any I've seen hence the issues. First a few notes about the nif:
a.) The nif structure is " mostly " that of an in game Irrational FFVTTR nif (has Root_NoteTrack/Root_NoteTrack_NonAccum).
b.) There are two instances for all of the original parts, one that's used in animations where he is phased, the others when solid. When I added new parts I followed that structure to a T.
c.) For the material properties of the phased parts the Alpha setting is 0.2500. For the alpha property the threshold is 50 and everything else standard which is of course unusual.

The issue I'm having is when I alpha out the bootcuffs the space where they would be gets cut out of the main mesh:


As you can see I've added new parts and those work fine. None overlap the position where the bootcuffs rest. This mesh also has other parts like a collar and rope to fasten it. Those are still present here and I just hid them using the alpha channel on the texture without issue. I changed none of the settings and the issue only occurs when I alpha out the bootcuffs via the texture as shown. Normally  when this happens it's a CTool problem but this is also present in game. The go to workaround is normally to drop the alpha property threshold from the standard 200 to something like 127-137. This causes no change here however. I'm clueless as what to do here and any help would be appreciated.

[hoss20]

I'm assuming that you created the NiAlphaProperty for the bootcuffs node, as there isn't one already present. I went head and did this and set the Alpha settings in the Block Details as Flags->237 and Threshold->200 and only the boots have disappeared. I can still see the mesh's shins. I also made sure that the Alpha in the NiMaterialProperty for the bootcuffs is set to 1. I didn't make any adjustments to the male_basicP:1 NiTriShape, which contains the phased bootcuffs.

[SickAlice]

Yeah, I made the NiAlphaProperty for it. I resolved this a different way. Using Blender I exported the bootcuff piece (including the Bipeds as not to lose placement). I opened them in a different program and reassigned the texture just to make sure it was set then saved that object. I imported the duplicate object into Blender and weighted it to the original, exported the nif and skoped the new bootcuff piece into the mesh in the node for it. This worked as well but that's a silly workaround. Yours is much more convenient and looks to be the proper course (I had no clue yet why they new piece worked only that it was not the old nonworking part). The difference I'm seeing in your method is the flags being 237. Any knowledge what that particular variable means or does just for the sake of understanding here (my old one appears as 13037)?

* edit: after a test run with my method the new bootcuffs do not follow the mesh animations despite being weighted to?
** I tried your method as well but still get the same as result as pictured above. I'm uncertain if my adding new parts/textures has anything to do with this? (Yours does however work in game so right now it's the choice method as I'm rushing a release)

[hoss20]

I have found that occasionally a piece that I have alpha'd will completely disappear if I have anything darker than medium gray on the alpha channel. This is when I've made adjustments to the Flags and Threshold. I'm sorry that I haven't kept track of which settings I've had to change. Flag 237 was just the default setting when I created my NiAlphaProperty.

It's odd that my method does function in-game for you, where I can also see it fine in CTool2. I imagine, as you mentioned, that adding pieces and textures may have changed things around. I know you've already done your skoping work, but would you like me to send you my version? This way, if you still have the same problem, then it may be something to do with your graphics card. I think that's more for FF1 meshes, though.

[SickAlice]

Ha. I have a few issues with my card and  . I get the one where parts move about if I use detailed shadows. The funny part is it's an ATI Radeon HD 4200, a card the very game was designed for. * *
This is again the only time things went this way though noted the nif itself is unique. I have seen other issues in CTool when mixing things with different alpha channels that don't show up in game though. Using multiple auras for example will have the same effect then look fine in game. Imo how it looks in game takes priority over how it looks in CTool so if it only works in game I give it a pass.
I'd love your version just so I can figure this out for future use at least. I'll PM you mine as is if you want to take a look at it, I have at least ten more Black Lanterns to finish before I release it anyways. Thanks for the help.

[spydermann93]

Ha. I have a few issues with my card and  . I get the one where parts move about if I use detailed shadows. The funny part is it's an ATI Radeon HD 4200, a card the very game was designed for. * *

Does that only happen when two of the same character are on the screen at once?

If so, the issue is because the Meshes don't have the Ghosting Fix applied to them.

The tutorial used to be on FRP2 (before it went down), but luckily, Cyber has backed it up here: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Freedom_Force_Resources/files/Ghosting%20Meshes/

[SickAlice]

Doesn't seem to be any info in that? I ran through a Ghosting fix tutorial or two manually before, I believe Tommyboy has one on his site. Those dealt with skin partitions. It didn't fix anything or sometimes caused worse problems. Most seemed to concur that is was an unresolvable graphics glitch in  with certain cards. Personally I'm okay using blob shadows anyways, no biggie. The pdf you linked is moot though. It just instructs a modder to download and run a program but the link for that is dead. Thanks for the effort though.

[hoss20]

I noticed in CTool, that from every angle, except straight on and front quarters, that the shins/ankles were visible. This led me to believe that we were having an overlapping alphas issue. You can probably see the lower legs fine in-game due to the fact that the meshes rotate around during character creation and you have variations on a top-down view in the Rumble Room.

As I went through the mesh, I saw that your male_basic node and the corresponding male_basic:1 NiTriShape were alpha enabled. I went back to the original mesh and noted that the same male_basic node and NiTriShape were not alpha enabled. I removed the NiAlphaProperty from the previously mentioned section of your skope and everything works fine. I realize that nothing in your male_basic art files was alpha'd, but I think that the overlapping meshes that are alpha'd out for the phasing effect caused some sort of latent problem with the alpha property on the male_basic node and its NiTriShape.

I went through all of the phasing animations and everything works fine, as well.

I'd be happy to send you the fixed skope, but I figured you might want to go through things and see what I'm talking about. It's an easy enough fix, once you know what to look for.

[SickAlice]

I'll go through it then. So your saying the conflict is from the alpha property on the male basic (solid) piece then just so I have this right? The notion of overlapping alpha channels makes sense enough. I " think " having alpha channels on everything is fine by itself, many of Gren's modern meshes are examples of that. I think the problem however occurs when two parts overlap, or specifically the faces touch each other, and the alpha channel settings for each have different values than one another. That would be the case with the ones that have multiple auras as well, whereas the auras have different values than the solid parts.

* removed the alpha channel on the solid male basic mesh, works fine now. Thanks hoss, your the best.

[hoss20]

I figured things went wonky due to the fact that the overlaying pieces have the visibility of the alpha effect set in the mesh pieces themselves, rather than in the art file where we normally take care of that stuff. I had thought of hiding the "phased" mesh pieces to see if this was the case.

You're very welcome, by the way. Always glad to help.