An Ode to Benton (IE: CSA Aquaman thread)

[Tomato]

So, I'm about to get the ball rolling on my next order from loosecollector (yes, I haven't forgotten these, just RL and less money getting in the way). It's going to be a small order this time, with only 3 figures in it: Hitman's because he won the poll, Marauder to round out Influx, and a character some of you might not be familiar with... J'edd J'arkus, a relatively one-note character from the "Crisis on Two Earths" animated film, the Earth 3(is it earth 3 again now? Urgh DC hurts meh)/Antiverse equivalent of Martian Manhunter.

Y'see, among the many fine christmas gifts I recieved this/last year was the Crime Syndicate box set. Now, I'm a sucker for pretty much anything Mirror Mirror/antiverse/Earth 3/whatever (I even did designs waaaay back for an earth 2/3 Titans group back when people still used yahoo groups for that sort of thing) so this set is one of the favorite things I now own. That said, I've always been meh on the fact that the CSA was only ever those five characters... All cracks on Benton aside, there's a reason Aquaman and Martian Manhunter are part of the JLA's big 7. Crisis on Two Earths presented us with a Crime Syndicate that realistically included more than just 5 super-villains, while still maintaining the power of the JL counterparts. So, even if I can only do it on my shelf, I am bloody well rounding out the CSA with the final two Big 7 counterparts.

The major problem with my plan, however, is that the plan rests upon there being legitimate counterparts to both Martian Manhunter and Aquaman... and while Crisis on Two Earths gave a great look at a variety of different antiverse characters, including Boss J'edd J'arkus, Aquaman's counterpart never showed up (this despite Aquaman actually showing up as one of Batman's recruits, GRAH). The ONE canon image I have ever found is of a character called the "Barracuda," who quite frankly looks like a weird cross between Black Manta and Ocean Master, NOT Aquaman's evil counterpart. And before anyone asks, I've even gone to Benton about this... even he was muttering some vague nonsense about MAAAAYBE using the design of Emporer Aquaman, a character I really can't care less about and whose design I really dislike.

So, here's my thought. We have some awesome artists around this place. And instead of some hokey chat or guessing game for the next batch of figures, I'd rather do something more meaningful... so, for the rest of this year, I'm going to open up the floor to every artist here: I need your help to make a proper Earth-3 Aquaman. You can submit drawings, micros, hero creator customs, skins, whatever you want. I will choose whichever design I like best to make it to my shelf... and the winner's current av will also be included in the same batch (unless he's already represented, in which case they can choose someone else's to add).

I won't be resting on my hindquarters either though. I'll be making designs of my own as well, whenever I get the itch... it's unlikely I'll go with them (I'm my own worse critic) but I'm just letting you know up front I'm in this too.

Here's some rough criteria for you guys, just to see what I'm looking for:
-Like most comic book fans, I've always preferred Aquaman's Orange and Green look... and while I won't say keeping to that scheme is 100% necessary, I'm going to be honest up front and say that anything using those colors creatively will probably get much greater preference then half-naked pirate Aquaman or dumb red-black emporer Aquaman.
-In the end, this design has to fit reasonably with the rest of the collection. This isn't a huge problem (the collection will already include J'edd from Crisis; Ultraman, Owlman and Superwoman from Anti-Earth; as well as Power Ring and Johnny Quick from the original Earth 3) but it does mean I don't want to see either overly-pouchy ninties type designs OR more modern "seams=realistic" type designs.

[juancho]

meee likey the challenge.
I'll try my hand at it

[Tomato]

Just to get things moving... First, here's a pic of my collection as it currently stands (plus my Aquaman figure, to give you a better idea of what anti-Aquaman would be compared with)

Spoiler

And my initial Anti-Aquaman design, dubbed "the Atlantean" temporarily (If anyone has a better name, go right ahead. Barracuda is even workable, though as far as I'm concerned ATM that's anti-Orm)

[naitvalis]

i'm absolutely interested, i looove all the things dc earth 3 related  .

[MJB]

Sounds cool. I'll think about it & see if I can come up with a design. No promises.

[naitvalis]

the idea behind this concept: are you sure there is atlantis on earth 3?
maybe on earth 3 another race who live under the earth crust have conquered atlantis, in ancient times...
this race (like the ancient romans) have adopted some of the gods and culture of atlantis, so even the tradition of "blonde hairs are no good" so the little Nyro born in a magnificent (lava look like-kingdom) but was quickly abandoned for his hairs, and bla bla bla you know the rest...
but Nyro for this fact have evolved an undomitable rage ...
the humans know him as Flame man (cause he can travel under the earth crust and emerge with a violent fire explosion, sometime in company with strange animals of his realm...)
the "race" physical attributes: they are highly resistant to heat, fire an pressure, they are weak versus cold temperatures, superhuman levels of strenght.
Nyro can of course telepatically comunicate with the creatures who lives under the earth crust.

[Panther_Gunn]

the idea behind this concept: are you sure there is atlantis on earth 3?
maybe on earth 3 another race who live under the earth crust have conquered atlantis, in ancient times...

I think that is an *excellent* idea, and I think it fits in with Earth 3 really well.  I'm not completely sold on the costume design, but I think the character design is spot on.  The only thing I would tack on to that would maybe be able to have telekinetic control over fire/flames, and to have a higher body temperature, requiring some frequent fire immersion, with a side-effect of his touch/footsteps ignite things that are highly flammable (tissue, dry grass, paper, etc).

[naitvalis]

well that flame control look obvious...but i think if aquaman don't control water, why flame man must control flame?
the side effect and the recharge thing are both good suggests, i'm glad you have entered in this idea to .
for the costume ive tried to resemble some thing from aquaman, and other things from a "dijin", but there always can be retouch if i found the time. but just think to this character emerge from fire with that pose typical of black adam, i think he is cool even in this shape.

[vamp]

 Not sure if we should be commenting on the art, but Imma do it anyways.  Once again nait, your art is pretty amazing. I love the detail on the face is awesome, and I can definitely see the dijin aspects in there. . Though I am not sold on the colors. The bright yellow on the scale-mail(?) reminds me a bit of a chicken.

[naitvalis]

  hehe i know what you mean about colors vamp, well all can i say is i have tried to use the aquaman orange, on the mail, but unfortunately ive used that "dodge" effect to much later (result in a yellow, my bad). so is basically that was an orange on the original concept... 

[Tomato]

Meeehhhh... I feel like kind of a jerk saying this naitvalis, particularly in light of the fact that I actually really do like the design overall... but quite frankly, I completely disagree with your take on the character.

Firstly, there is CLEARLY an Atlantis in the CSA universe. As I mentioned in my previous post, a character called the Barracuda (who looks a lot like Ocean Master and Black Manta's love child) is shown in one panel of a Crime Syndicate story in JLA #114, where he's leading an Atlantean army in rebellion against the Crime Syndicate. Now, in my mind, this is actually a Earth 3 Orm, not Arthur Curry(thus why I disregarded it), but it's a pretty clear indication of Atlantis at least existing.

Secondly, in no adaptation I've seen of a Mirrored DC universe (even the bizarre Earth 3 shown in 52) has a character's power been the reverse of his counterpart... In almost every case, the counterpart's abilities have been roughly equivalent to that of their counterpart. Johnny Quick's power, for example, isn't the ability to slow down speedsters, nor is Power Ring's draining energy... Johnny Quick is a speedster and Power Ring uses a cursed ring to make constructs. There are differences to be sure, but never outright reversals.

Thirdly... my own avatar aside, I feel like there are plenty of fire-related characters out there already. Aquaman's one of the few notable water based heroes out there, and it just seems silly to mess with that, at least in my opinion.

Does this mean I dislike the design? No, not at all. Your design evokes imagery of old school Chinese warlords, and I do really like that. Turning Arthur from a benevolent king to a bloodthirsty Warlord is the kind of thing that would indeed happen in a mirrored world. I just don't think reversing his powers is necessary.

[Cyber Burn]

The Aquatic - Warlord of the 7 seas.

Kind of rough, but I see the CSA's Aquaman as being more of a Warrior/Conquorer more than anything else.

[naitvalis]

to Tomato: is good to read you like the design overall .
It was just a quick sketch idea (with a minimal background line) wich have fashinated me.
talking  more "in general" fire, water, nature or whatever are just inspirations, the character can always be original.
( by the way my colour is green: bla bla bla (that magic the gathering soup )

[Tomato]

So, I was bored, and decided to take a leaf out of Juancho's book and make the next design a micro.



Here's a new version of the Barracuda (I know I said I feel like the character in JLA was Earth 3 Orm, and that still applies... but Barracuda is as good a name as any until someone can come up with a better one) Also working out a rough history in my head to go along with it, which I'll keep in spoilers (coincidentally, if anyone wants to write up their own ideas for a background, I'd love to hear them) so anyone who doesn't want to read them doesn't have to.

Spoiler

Codename: The Barracuda
Real Name: Arthur Curry

Background: ambiguously foreborn son of Atlantis' former King Arthur and human Atlanna Curry, Arthur's mere existence raised scandal among the royal house of Atlantis. However his blond hair, a rare trait among Atlantians, caused his father great distress. Superstition among the Atlantians had long since associated those with blonde hair of great wisdom and power, but as Arthur was born out of wedlock, he could not become king... not while his half-brother Orm still lived. Nevertheless, the king chose to raise him as though he were his own son.

However, while Orm grew to be an insightful, intelligent leader, Curry quickly became spoiled and viscous. Despite being born outside wedlock, Arthur's blonde hair gave him much more power over the common population then he would have otherwise had. Cruel and cleaver, Curry delighted in tormenting the subjects of Atlantis, often using the abilities gained from the royal bloodline to their most awful effect. Eventually, King Arthur was forced to intervene for the good of the population... but it was too late. Curry used his contacts within Atlantis' criminal network to hire an assassin to murder his father. However, the assassin was careless, and left enough evidence for the murder to be traced back to young Curry.

But when the royal guards, spearheaded by newly-crowned Orm, went to capture Curry, he was able to fight them off and escape. Rechristening himself "Barracuda" to once and for all rid himself of his royal heritage, Curry was able to claim power over Atlantis' underworld by leveraging his connection to the surface world, trading unique goods and services to the Crime Syndicate in exchange for their support.

[naitvalis]

the idea behind this concept: was to create a spooky creature of the sea, an implacabile preadator of the abyss.
so just to suggest even anothor perspective for this "aquaman", here is Maelstrom:
like the "real aquaman, Maestrom was rised by the creatures of the sea, but not from dolphins, he learned the life of the sharks...
in time he became a dark predator of the deep.
(generally Maelstrom not talk, but his telepatics powers are much stronger then aquaman, he can "influence" even the humans to understand his will.)



black and orange version.

[UnfluffyBunny]

I always thought barracuda was Aquaman's counterpart.... coulda sworn I read some backstory somewhere to do with his dad doing tests on him and him growing up in atlantis.... tho my brain might just be fried, and all my comics are in storage from before I moved...
(so people can see barracuda from the comic -> http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110823071458/marvel_dc/images/e/ef/Barracuda_Crime_Syndicate_001.jpg )

[Tomato]

I always thought barracuda was Aquaman's counterpart.... coulda sworn I read some backstory somewhere to do with his dad doing tests on him and him growing up in atlantis.... tho my brain might just be fried, and all my comics are in storage from before I moved...
(so people can see barracuda from the comic -> http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110823071458/marvel_dc/images/e/ef/Barracuda_Crime_Syndicate_001.jpg )

*cough*

The ONE canon image I have ever found is of a character called the "Barracuda," who quite frankly looks like a weird cross between Black Manta and Ocean Master, NOT Aquaman's evil counterpart. And before anyone asks, I've even gone to Benton about this... even he was muttering some vague nonsense about MAAAAYBE using the design of Emporer Aquaman, a character I really can't care less about and whose design I really dislike.

Firstly, there is CLEARLY an Atlantis in the CSA universe. As I mentioned in my previous post, a character called the Barracuda (who looks a lot like Ocean Master and Black Manta's love child) is shown in one panel of a Crime Syndicate story in JLA #114, where he's leading an Atlantean army in rebellion against the Crime Syndicate. Now, in my mind, this is actually a Earth 3 Orm, not Arthur Curry(thus why I disregarded it), but it's a pretty clear indication of Atlantis at least existing.

The truth is, there are VERY few canon crime syndicate stories out there, and of those, only about 2 or 3 are worth the pages they're printed on (Morrison's being the gold standard, but "Syndicate Rules" was pretty decent too). Add to that the fact that there were at least 3 different versions of the CSA (Pre crisis, Antimatter, post Infinate Crisis, and potentially a new one now that the new 52's branching out into multiverses again) and you can see why much of it is open to interpretation. That said, the panel you showed is the ONE image I've ever been able to find that's potentially a canon CSA Aquaman, and it is VERY ambiguous. Having literally just re-read the story it comes from, I'm pretty sure it's left that way on purpose... the story exists to open the CSA to further stories (which is kinda sad since the only story to include them since was so very very bad...) so they throw out a lot of stuff at the end for other writers to potentially move forward with.

Either way though, the design is fugly and boring, and I refuse to use it, regardless of how "canon" it is.

[naitvalis]

i like that new Barracuda design Tomato, there is a chance you skin for    whatever character emerge from this ?

[Tomato]

Potentially? I'm not going to say it won't ever happen, but I'd almost be required to skin the entire CSA first (Including J'edd) and my track record towards finishing projects... not so fantastic

[Tomato]

I've got a bit of a "rant" that's going to be spewing forth in a minute or so, but before I get into that, quick update: During my weekend shopping excursion thing TRU had some of the older DCUC two packs on clearance, so I took the opportunity to get better versions of GL and Aquaman. It's not a huge deal here since Loosecollector would be doing the final paint apps anyway, but it does mean the Aquaman he'll ("he" being whatever version of CSA Aquaman ends up winning) be facing off against has a proper orange shirt now, not the ZOMG GOLD one I showed before.

Spoiler

OK, so on top of looking at the designs you all have been doing and bashing my own head against the wall trying to design a semi-decent version (I'm okay with the one I microed for the moment, but I'm torn between it and Cyber's design and I'm still very open to something that looks better), I've also been scouring the net trying to find a fan design that works as well. My search on that end has been... disappointing. I'm not trying to be nasty, but the worst of the designs in this thread could be half as good as it is and still be more appealing than most of the designs I've found elsewhere.

That said, I wanted to take the time and address some of the issues I have with those designs so that I don't have to deal with similar nonsense here.

-The Iron Aquaman-

This isn't the worst mistake I've seen per se, but it seems to happen more often so I'll address it first. Unlike Cyber's design, which strikes a good balance between having a guy who wears a bit of armor because he's a warrior, many of the "Barracuda" designs seem to take their cue from the worst Aquaman designs in the comics... overly busy designs with unnescessary lines and details that are intended to indicate some mystical Atlantis technology, but that just look goofy.

-Flashpoint Aquaman Knockoffs-

This is perhaps the most irksome for me personally... I've said before that I really dislike Flashpoint Aquaman's design. This s because, instead of trying to come up with an interesting design that makes Aquaman more menacing, they basically gave him a palette swap. Now, I'm not one to bash characters with Black and Red costumes *significant look at his av* but Aquaman is the only hero I can think of who can get away with an Orange-Gold-Green color set. Instead of faking a more "evil" Aquaman by making him red/black, I'd rather see someone use his existing palette creatively.

-Merma... I mean, "Aquaman"-

As I mentioned above, I recently bought one of the Mattel two packs because the version of Aquaman it had was superior to the one I was using. This pack had Arthur facing off against "Merman," one of Skeletor's cronies... ironic to me because many of the designs for CSA Aquaman seem determined to turn Aquaman into a clone/variation of Merman. As I've mentioned, the existing CSA may have minor differences from their counterparts, but they are pretty similar in most respects. None of the Atlanteans have ever been depicted as crazy semi-fish people (the only thing even remotely close was a period where Manta was a sharkish thing, but the less said about that the better) so there'd be no legitimate reason for Arthur to be.

[UnfluffyBunny]

it's not that I misread about barracuda, I think it's more that I misunderstood

unfortunately now this whole CSA aquaman thing has been stuck in my head, so I began blocking out a design, and it's in early stages >.>

Spoiler

my thinking is based around him being the king of atlantis, if he's a bad guy he's going to be more of a tyrant that got the crown by killing off his opposition, rules with fear, possibly slavery.
directly, i'm aiming at a warrior, my brain keeps going to roman gladiator, so he'd be wielding the trident with his right, and swinging with both, so I moved towards a buckler for his left forearm, if you're going to be in close fighting with any pole style weapon there's no reason not to use one >.>
secondary defense would be with the right arm forward, so I went for a single arm in scalemail, again, roman gladiator influence, so I added the closeform shoulder armor and the gladiator style chest straps, I will probably be adding a gauntlet, or atleast a bracer and hand guard of some sort to the design of this arm.
with the defense mostly covered secondary thoughts fall to manouverability, especially underwater, so I left the left side bare, and aim to kee the rest of the costume as bodyformed as possible, I "decorated" the left arm with some tattoo effect, possibly atlantean runes or prayers, or scenes depicting his victories.
I almost want to go for a uniform look with the body of the costume, tho i'm really unsettled on it at this point, I was feeling the regular aquaman belt shape, but with the triangular shape formed into an "A" (incoming tangent again)
I felt the name "Atlas" would serve well as an adopted name, as it's the name of the first king of atlantis in mythology (one of poseidon's sons)
the legs are lacking as of yet, I was debating between boots, greaves or an almost scale sort of layed armor up the foot > shins.
keeping in with the streamlined thing, shaved head and face, probably adorned by scars, I was thinking some kind of gold circlet to emphasize the king of atlantis thing.

anyway, babbling on, that's the large parts of the design in my head so far, probably missed some points but i'll be revisiting this, i'm planning on finalizing this onto a skin once the design is down, even if you hate it
here's the crappy block out image as this stage, ignore the crappyness, this is just me getting ideas out before comitting to trying to skope something together :

[Tomato]

Now you know how I feel. I've had this buzzing in my brain since I got the CSA 5-pack at Christmas.

I like the design so far actually. It kind of builds on what I liked about CB's design, but it's still not as busy as some of the other designs I've been running across. I could totally see "Atlas" as being Aquaman's CSA counterpart. I might suggest a few things later on, but I'll wait until you've wrapped your head around the design before I make them.

I also want to comment (mostly because I feel like I unintentionally ignored it, which wasn't my intent) on nait's second design. I love some of the ideas you brought up about his background and powers (particularly the idea of his telepathy being able to "speak" to others... if he can do that, then perhaps he could put it to more nefarious means?  ) but the design... it's not "bad" (Trust me, you have not seen bad until you have attempted to look at other fan designs for this character. UGH!) but I think my biggest problem with it is that other then the cape and cowl (the mask is very nifty btw) the design is almost too close to Aquaman's. In a way, it's the reverse of the first one... with that one I liked the costume but could have done without the powerset, this one has s cool background and interesting powers but has a blah design from the neck down.

[naitvalis]

here is another design for maelstrom, i taked note about his costume and mask, so i preserved only the mask and the cape.
i think this one is pretty cool, if i can say such thing for my own work hehe.
(there is some space on the right  for an eventual detailed background.)

[BentonGrey]

Alright folks, I suppose that my comments here are long overdue.  As I told Tomato when he messaged me, asking for my thoughts, I discovered this thread recently and immediately tried to design an appropriate costume for Aquaman's evil twin.  However, I am simply not someone who is visually creative.  Even using Champion's Online as an artistic crutch, I couldn't quite come up with anything decent, and certainly not anything like the caliber of the excellent designs here.  I've been putting off commenting until I had more of substance to offer, but I suppose I can at least add my thoughts, such as they are, on the designs already in evidence here.

First off, let me say that this thread is really a great idea.  If anyone can design a good identity and look for the CSA Aquaman, it's the folks in this community.  I agree with 'Mato that his Flashpoint redesign leaves a lot to be desired, as does the one canon appearance of "Barracuda."  I'm sure the FR community can do much better.  I remember the response I got for my CSA design contest for the DCUG.  It was fantastic, and FR came up with some really amazing designs, many of which actually show up in my JLA/JSA/CSA crossover campaign.  I'm really impressed with what y'all have come up with so far.  I think the discussion about the nature of the character himself is particularly interesting, so before I address individual designs, let me comment on that.

The CSA characters are all inversions of their heroic alter-egos, right?  The selfless and heroic Superman is a selfish low-brow thug.  The good hearted, down to earth Barry Allen is a drug-addict obsessed with his next fix.  It's not necessarily a 1:1 correlation, but there is a certain sense to it.  I think that the same should, obviously, be true of the CSA Aquaman, and Aquaman is defined by his relationship to the two worlds of which he's a part.  We know what the CSA surface world is like, chaotic, splintered, self-ish, and utterly beaten down.  The underwater world needs to be defined to define Aquaman.  It makes sense to me that the ideas many of y'all have already brought up for Atlantis would fit perfectly.  The original Atlantis is an advanced, peaceful society based on ancient Athens and Greece at large.  It seems to me that the logical inversion here would replace the Athenian model with Sparta, or perhaps Rome.  Either way, they'd be militarisitc empire builders.

So, the adventurer/hero/unwilling king that is Aquaman would, in turn, become a powerful but vicious conqueror, after power and domination above all else.  He's a tyrant, an emperor who gains glory and holds power only so long as he continues to win victories and bring in wealth and influence for his people.  It's Rome at its worst, but a Rome mixed with the Germanic culture that replaced it, so the leaders must constantly prove their strength and "heroism" in battle.  I like the idea that our evil Aquaman has struck a deal with the CSA, an uneasy balance of power.  He's got the oceans, they've got the land.  They work together purely to maintain their dominion over Earth. 

All of these things being given, our Aqua-doppleganger, or Aquaganger ( ), would then be more warrior and king than hero.  Still, 'Mato's right, and the other CSA characters have relatively small changes to their costumes.  Superman and Ultraman look very similar at first glance, and that's true of most of the others.  The trouble is that Aquaman's costume is SOO distinct that it's tough to switch it around and end up with something that works.  That was my problem.  The color scheme has a hard time looking evil.  Y'all have done a great job working around that, though.  I think the route many of y'all have taken, with a Roman/gladiator-esq style is the right way to go.  I'm going to try to revisit my own poor design tonight, inspired by y'all's efforts.

Anyway, I've got to run, but I'll be posting my thoughts on the individual designs a bit later on, in case y'all are interested.  I hope these thoughts of mine have been helpful!

[Tomato]

See, it's more that sort of stuff which I PMed you about... You may not be the more artistic of people, but you understand the Aquaman character in a way none of the rest of us really do. We could be sitting here working on designs until our brains turn to mush, but without getting at least a passing understanding of what his background should be, all we're really doing is shooting spitballs through a straw at the wall hoping to make an interesting splat.

That said, as I wrote in my little quasi bio, I like the idea that even if he is ruler of Atlantis, he's not a legitimate king... To put it bluntly, I like the idea that this version of Aquaman is literally a b@$7@rd. Granted, he's technically one in the mainstream U as well (depending on the origin DC's using this week) but I think in this case it works as a driving force... where our Arthur accepts it as an accident of birth, for CSA's Atlas (I've taken a liking to that moniker, sue me) it's a driving force. He feels like he's defined by his parentage, and so is more ruthless and demanding then he might have been otherwise.

Oh, BTW, I was reading through some more CSA comics (they apparently appeared quite heavily in one of DC's other 52-esque books, one called "Trinity"... to be honest, I'd never really heard about it until this whole obsession) and I found another Barracuda one panel wonder, this time with a completely different costume:

Spoiler

Now, as with the last "official" design, this one is just kinda bad (wtf kind of mask is that!?!) but I thought I'd mention it now that I've run across the panel. To be fair, if I'd come across it to begin with I might have adapted it into something more manageable for the sake of a "canon" Arthur... but really, I like all the designs here better at this point, so I'm just as happy to ignore it exists.

[Cyber Burn]

Kind of bad... nah...horrendous...yes.

My final version of the Aquatic:

[Tomato]

Yes, it really is... but take away the mask and whatever those things are under his arms (I STILL don't understand what they're supposed to be, and I've been staring at them since I came across the panel.) and make the red areas green... it's at least passable. There really wasn't enough to the all-black barracuda to build from, whereas this one, for all the bizarreness, has some interesting, if lackluster, segments buried underneath. But again, it's a moot idea since you've all kicked it's butt anyway.

Edit: I think I'm going to have to cut back on my commentary as far as the designs go... I feel like we've kind of reached the point where all the designs you guys are making are good, but it's just a personal preference kind of thing. Since I don't really feel comfortable saying "I like X over Y because... reasons?" or whatever, unless there's something legitimate I can add to one design or another (like "hey, that could use gloves" or "belt symbols would be cool", etc.) I'm just going to keep my vague unreasoning opinions to myself. I will however, be more than happy to discuss backgrounds and histories for the character... because I am a total nerd like that 

[UnkoMan]

I kind of dig this Alex Ross armor...
http://clonesparadise.blogspot.com/2008/01/dc-direct-need-list-part-1.html

But, also...
That image of "Barracuda" and your insistence that he is actually Ocean Master keeps making me think of something.
What if Ocean Master is the king of Atlantis? The rightful king, and he's a good king and people love him.
And Aquaman is a guy who wants to be king and tries to take over? Or is a wandering terrible nomad.

Of course that goes against the same people winning and losing the battles, just on opposite teams, so maybe nevermind. Ocean Master can still be a rebel with rebel forces, who fight for good but always lose.

This is a terrible description of what I am thinking about, but I am at work and have to go.

[UnfluffyBunny]

Ocean Master can still be a rebel with rebel forces, who fight for good but always lose.

I'd venture this would be the way they'd go if they did a storyline, a whole freedom fighters vibe would give it the full spin you'd expect

[BentonGrey]

I agree 'Mato, the CSA Aquaman would really NOT be the legitimate king, as that is Arthur's role.  Arthur fits the archetype of the lost prince.  It's one of his defining characteristics, the heroic youth who turns out to be royalty.  I think his doppelganger would undoubtedly have to be a usurper, by one method or another.  I think that the world of the CSA is one in which the family unit would be even more rare than ours, thus the idea of an illegitimate claimant to the throne would make sense.  I definitely like the idea that HE is the less favored son.  Perhaps he's the second born, more likely, he's simply illegitimate.  Either way, he deposes the rightful king, Orm, and takes over.  Tom Curry, Arthur's human father, was a decent, principled, and honest man that taught his son what it was to be a hero.  What if, instead of a lighthouse keeper, our alterna-Arthur's father might be a pirate, a thief, selfish and cruel where his double was altruistic and kind.  Think of the lessons THAT Tom Curry would teach his son.  I definitely see this Aquaganger as ending up somewhat similar to Attuma in Marvel.  He's Siegfried more than Aeneas, no doubt; a barbarian. 

Unko, I think you've got it there.  Orm would be fighting the good fight, but always being repulsed, unable to unseat his tyrannical brother.

Alright gents, it's taken me a bit of time, but here are my comments on the individual designs previewed so far. 

The Atlantean:

[/quote]
I like this design, 'Mato.  In many ways, this is the design here that fits best in the company of the CSA.  He's got that simple, sleek, classical superhero costume.  He's got Arthur's basic color-scheme, and he's got a few touches that show him as more militaristic and vicious than Aquaman.  I think a lighter/brighter green would work better, though.  I see what you're going for, but you lose that clear connection to the other CSA members when the shades of his colors are so far off from the original.  Despite the fact that he seems most like one of the CSA members, I do think there is something missing, but I'm not really sure what it is.  I suppose the costume doesn't give us that many more clues in how he differs from Aquaman.  However, as I said earlier, the other CSA members don't.  I think we're all wanting something from the Aquaganger that we really don't have with the others, and that's probably because Aquaman's costume is so very, very distinctive. 

Nyro:

I love this design, just love it.  I love the idea of a firey character, and I love the Hun-ish, Mongol-ish elements of his costume.  However, I think that this is more like another alternate Earth Aquaman than the CSA version, because the CSA figures usually have the same power sets.  Despite that, I love this design, and it seems to beg for a story to be told about it.

Maelstrom:

This is probably my favorite design, taken purely for the design, of everything in this thread.  This is soooo cool!  I think it's probably a bit too far off of Aquaman's design to fit in easily with the CSA, but it's so neat that I could probably get around that.  I like the idea that, instead of the defender of the oceans, Aquaganger is a monster from the depths!  I will say that Aquaman's scaley shirt is probably too jarring to go with the rest of the design.  Perhaps a darker, more reddish gold might work?  Also, just to take this in a different direction, this looks the beginning to a really awesome design for an Aquaman villain.  I think you addressed all of these things really well in your redesign:


Quite excellent!  I do have to say, though, Maelstrom is probably my favorite name so far.

Atlas:

This is my favorite overall design for an Aquaganger, though the next one is a very close second.  I'm sure when Syn finishes it the rough edges will be polished to brilliance, but even unfinished I very much like what he's doing.  The streamlined, modern approach to a Roman gladiator is something that I've been trying and failing to capture in Champions in my own ill-fated designs, but this does it quite well.  This character is easily recognizable as Aquaman, the armor gives him that barbaric, militaristic look he needs, and his color-scheme is intact.  It's an excellent way to solve the problems of this design.  I think maybe gloves might help complete it somewhat, though.  Ohh, and the tattoos should totally glow, like the new Aqualad's.

The Aquatic:

[/quote]
My second favorite design for Aquaganger, I think the helmet, a nice blend between Roman and Aquatic themes is excellent.  Maybe some stylized shells or something on the ears would complete that.  I like the slight touches of armor, and the clear connection to Aquaman's costume.  I'm especially impressed with the shirt.  I didn't think that a green version of his armored shirt would work, but you made it look very nice.  I think the only real problem is the coloring for his boots and pants.  Perhaps a richer, more reddish orange might work better, instead of the dusty color you've got.

Well folks, I hope that was interesting and/or helpful.

:EDIT: Alright, finished.